Practice codes in super mario sunshine
11 messages normal
Hello everyone I am back from my 3+ year slumber! I'm asking about codes being used in super mario sunshine. Essentially how you get them is, you homebrew your wii, add the nintendont app in your homebrew menu, then download a practice code file with the codes you want from here. and put that file into the root of an SD card or USB drive.
Most of the practice codes people often use are Level select, instant restart, and enable exit area everywhere. I got some scores a while back where practice codes were present, but I think mine are still valid because the only ones I used were the ones stated before. Mario's speed is not altered and the timer is not tampered with. Think of it like the usamune rom that sm64 speedrunners use for practicing levels. I will post some scores I would like you people to look and and give some feedback on.
I have more than just those three, they're just examples. If you guys want more explanation of practice codes and what they add I can try to answer some questions. If I need to provide video proof for all times where practice codes are present, that is fine by me. Only reason I am asking for a chance for these to be valid is that the core gameplay is unchanged. The only thing they add is more practice efficiency.
EDIT: in the pianta 6 vid you'll notice the pianta's dialog got replaced wit just "!!!" That's another practice code called "Fast Text" which helps with text efficiency. This code still does not deter my stance however, as it does not really affect levels with an in game timer. It does not affect Pianta 6 because the timer doesn't start til after you're done text scrolling, and the red coin challenges don't start til after the red button dialog
Thanks for having reported this.
Your question is not clear, sorry.
Like I supposed, if you asked if these codes are allowed, I don't think so, because:
- these codes are not present in the game by default, you need to download them
- your link goes to GCT Generator page, where it says and recognize this as a cheatfile generator. In general VGR Rules, 2.2 Prohibited practices part, it says that cheat codes are prohibited.
So, if you say that they don't give advantage for speed or time, so why did you use them, I don't understand ?
What do you mean with "more practice efficiency" ?
It seems that the retrocompatibility with GameCube games on Wii also adds problems like this, do you know others ?
Other remark: when you use cheatcodes, is it always written/visible on screen, or not ?
I mean, how can we detect that cheat codes were used ?
Note that most of the VGR records in this game were made before the specific Game Rules arrival, where we can oblige video proofs for example.
If the use of any outside-game codes can make an help who has an impact on making scores or speed for VGR, we have to refuse them, as cheats, and clarify the Game Rules if there is other specificities.
Then, can video proofs makes the difference between using codes and not using codes, and should we apply a video proof obligation/rule for this game ?
I definitely see your concern, that's why I did not post my scores before asking about this.
That first point was my guess on why they would not be allowed, and yeah they are definitely a modification in a certain way.
When I say they don't provide an advantage, I think I wasn't 100% correct looking back on this. They DO provide an advantage; however, the advantage they provide is the ability to grind attempts faster than the vanilla game. So instead of having to exit area and select the mission again in pianta 6's case, or dying and respawning in the red coin challenges case, you can just input a button combo using the codes and it reloads the level quickly. What I meant initially by "not providing an advantage" was that the times I got are still possible to get in the vanilla game, the codes are not required to get the times I currently have.
So basically the reason I use them is because they allow me to grind out attempts faster than if I was just using the vanilla game, but that's it. I don't use any codes that make mario faster, nor do I use anything that affects the timer in any way. As of the time of me posting about this, there does not exist such code that gives you save states so those are not a worry.
For video proof: The most obvious way to tell if codes were used or not would be to check if the game music is there, the speed angle and position info is on screen, if you see the score poster hit exit area and they're immediately back in the level again. But for picture proofs, the most obvious way would be if the position angle and speed display is on screen.
As for if video proof should be required or not, I'd say it should be required for times that are top 3 or better, as one COULD use said codes in a way that makes it unfair, but a video can definitely show proof that the codes were not used in an unfair way that makes the time impossible to get in the vanilla game. You don't have to enforce this rule for times already submitted, but you would for new submissions.
Overall, I'd understand them not being allowed because you are technically adding things to the game that weren't on it initially, but the reason I still advocated for the use of them is because the times you can get with them are also possible on the vanilla game. The only advantage they bring is that they can allow you to grind out attempts faster.
From the moment you don't play in the official condition, you can't add your records on VGR. at one point you talk about ROMs, except that on VGR, unofficial emulation is prohibited (unlike nes mini and virtual console emulation of the WII).
So from the moment you download something unofficial or if you add an unofficial console device then it's emulation.
And unfortunately, it will always be difficult for VGR to know if the records are made in a legit (official) way.
FR
A partir du moment ou tu ne joue pas dans les condition officiel, tu ne peux pas ajouter ses records sur VGR.
a un moment tu parles de ROM, sauf que sur VGR, l'émulation non officiel est interdite, (a l'inverse des émulation nes mini et virtual console de la WII).
Donc à partir du moment ou tu telecharge un truc non officiel ou si tu ajoute un appareil non officiel de la console alors c'est de l'émulation.
Et malheureusement, se sera toujours difficile pour VGR de savoir si les records sont fait de façon legit (officiel)
yeah that's fair enough. many of the times I have are not fully optimized anyway so i can just beat them on console without codes, but I thought I'd ask anyway to be fully sure
Thanks for your detailed answer.
Even if the practice codes don't give a real advantage on the speed or timer for the records, it gives you facilities to access to the grind or reload the game faster.
Then it allows to play the game more easily, and creates an imbalance/difference between those who use the codes and those who don't.
Then, clearly, you should not use this.
In a more general way, outside codes/Roms use is forbidden, you have to forget this when you want to post a record for VGR.
It is already written in the VGR Rules.
2.2 Prohibited practices:
In a general way, any practice which isn't integrated in the original game or which makes competition between players unfair.
Last, (you know this well but I remind this to all members) :
Don't forget to have a camera or a device for prooving your records.
Because even if proofs are not a obligation, for reminder every record posted on VGR should be potentially provable.
And it avoid us lot of potential problems.
We can not require video proofs for Top 3, without a more specific reason, or simply because, as you said, we can detect if practice codes were used with a video or with a simple picture.
So we continue to rely on the proofs asks system: anybody can ask you a proof, for each record you sent on VGR, soon or later.
I will modify the Game Rules with your comments, to prevent the (forbidden) use of these codes.
Thanks for this clarifying discussion.
Those aren't modded levels, right ?
To further add some reason this is in fact "not good VGR practice", you don't touch mario's speed and the level design or the timer alright.
Now let's say I get bored and tweak around with your homebrew code, I increase just so slightly mario's jump height. No big deal, I go a bit further and find a new way to make text appear and go away faster. I don't release my code. I go a bit further and find a way to pop some elements of the screen faster.
Just very little touch here and there. But very much so that I can shave off a second or two from your best time, breaking the competition forever.
That's what we're trying to avoid. If you go too deep that way it becomes a programming competition more than a playing competition.
I understand the desire to train off but as soon as you're getting away from the original game, you go away from standard competition and you do have a somewhat unfair advantage.
Now I did watched some of your videos and it looks like you're getting pretty good but please refrain posting modded scores here. And thanks for asking beforehand 🙂
il n'y a pas besoin de rajouté cette règle au jeu, c'est une règle de base sur VGR.
La modification du jeu est interdite pour tous les jeux, que se soit avec des logiciels comme dans cette exemple ou matériel comme avec les actions replay ou autre R4
ce n'est pas des produits officiel, ils n'ont rien à faire sur VGR.
Il y a deux règles importante sur VGR qui existe depuis le début et qui ont fait la force sur site
1 On fait en sorte de garder une concurrence saine sur les jeux
2 On n'encourage pas le piratage
Certes on ne peux pas prouvez leur utilisations mais c'est important que cela reste interdit sur VGR.
Il faut continuer à promouvoir le concurrence sur les console d'origine / officiel.
Je ne sais pas ou est le problème actuellement, car si ces questions se posent encore c'est que soit les règles ne sont pas clair pour les utilisateurs soit c'est la visibilité de ces règles qui pause problème
In the Game Rules, I just added a reminder on general Rules, but also some (necessary) specific details written by lilGreenYoshi.
He joined VGR in 2015, maybe he did not take attention to the Rules, or simply wanted to clarify the situation (then it is a good and respectful behaviour).
Note that since VGR update 7.0.34 of 26th December 2022, every new member is obliged to read and sign the Rules.
sauf que ces informations ne sont pas inclue dans le jeu, c'est le logiciel externe qui le permet,
donc avec cette règle, personne ne peut prouver, que se soit vidéo ou photo car ce logiciel est interdit.
except that this information is not included in the game, it is the external software that allows it,
so with this rule, no one can prove that it is video or photo because this software is prohibited.
Ok, so the Game Rule has finally been deleted...
Sorry, but the message of lilGreenYoshi was a little bit confusing.
Members should just remember that emulation remains forbidden, like written in the general Rules.
Then, no need to apply a specific Game Rule.