[Débat/Debate] Les records / The Records

So much effort and discussion over something that is not a part of any of the games.  Cyberscore has the same problem.  VGR and Cyberscore both kow tow to the "overall scoreboard" that has no bearing on the individual games.

Highlight who is good at an individual game.  Do not highlight who is good at beating a fictitious scoreboard algorithm.

J'approuve les nouvelles règles

Règles

D'après moi, on devrait commencer par faire un sondage pour chacune des ses 3 règles, et appliquer rapidement les règles qui seront approuvés.
Ensuite, une fois que l'on aura des retours concernant ces règles, on pourra avoir un meilleur avis concernant la règle n°4

OkamiAma77 :

Règles

1.Création d'un classement médaille Jeu (Or / Argent / Bronze) qui remplace le classement médaille Record.

3.
Dès lors qu'un record atteint 5 participants ou plus, le nombre d'égalités à la première place ne doit pas dépasser les 60% du nombre de participants, arrondi à l'inférieur. Si une telle chose se produit, le record sera désactivé et ne comptera plus dans les classements car il sera considéré comme trop facilement maxable.

3bis.
Si l'ensemble des records d'un jeu ne respectent pas cette règle (c'est à dire que tous les records du jeu sont jugés "trop faciles"), tous les records du jeu seront réactivés. Ceci afin d'éviter que les jeux avec un seul record ne soient impactés par cette règle.

D'après moi, on devrait commencer par faire un sondage pour chacune des ses 3 règles, et appliquer rapidement les règles qui seront approuvés.
Ensuite, une fois que l'on aura des retours concernant ces règles, on pourra avoir un meilleur avis concernant la règle n°4

100% d'accord avec ce que propose OkamiAma77, on fait un sondage sur ces trois règles, et ensuite, on applique ou pas

Je suis partant pour faire des sondages individuels aussi. En faisant le lien avec ce topic pour que ceux qui ne l'auraient pas vu puissent prendre connaissance des échanges.

I'm also ok for making a poll.
But I need to take some time to program it and it's hard to find some time currently.

EDIT : Here come the first poll!
Thanks!

merci pour le sondage, je vais expliquer ma position afin de la partager et éventuellement de débattre:

je suis contre la création d'un classement médailles par jeu, car ce n'est pas la solution du problème, j'ai l'impression qu'on cherche juste à enlever Flowthaboss de la page d'accueil...
dans quelques années, lui même ou un autre joueur sera en tête de ce classement uniquement grâce à des peudo-jeux sur des pseudo-plateformes.

soit les flows sont des jeux à part entière, et dans ce cas Flowthaboss mérite les 16000 platines qu'il a sur ces "jeux"; soit les flows ne sont pas des jeux, on les vire et Arvain fait son retour en haut du classement.

avec ce futur classement médailles par jeu, j'ai juste l'impression qu'on cherche une solution annexe parce que justement on a toujours pas réussi à trancher le cas flow.

A partir du moment où on accepte que les flows sont de vrais jeux (ce qui semble être le cas à la vue du nombre de posts sur ces jeux), alors, il faut accepter qu'un joueur puisse avoir un nombre colossal de platines sur ces "jeux"...
je fais partie de ceux qui ne considèrent pas les flows comme des jeux, mais même si c'est difficile, en y voyant le nombre de posts, je suis bien contraint de me dire que j'ai surement tort!

Yi, ce classement n'a effectivement pas pour but de corriger le problème Flow mais un autre problème sur VGR.

Je pense, et je ne suis pas le seul, que plus on aura de classement plus il y aura des compétitions différentes.
Le problème du classement platines, c'est qu'il est trop précis pour figurer sur la page d'accueil et effectivement un classement médailles jeux serait largement plus logique et révélateur de la qualité d'un joueur (au niveau global du site).

Effectivement le problème qu'on va avoir, c'est au niveau des pseudo jeux et pseudo plateformes. Pour cela nous avons pensé à la règle 5.
Le classement platines-record sera toujours là, certes moins visible vu que absent de la page d'accueil mais toujours sur le site.



Vu la réponse que tu donnes je pense qu'il aurait fallut que l'on explique concrètement chaque règle et son objectif puisque pour moi seule la règle 3 pourra toucher au problème Flow.




Autre point, le point nommé 3b par Okami.

3bis.
Si l'ensemble des records d'un jeu ne respectent pas cette règle (c'est à dire que tous les records du jeu sont jugés "trop faciles"), tous les records du jeu seront réactivés. Ceci afin d'éviter que les jeux avec un seul record ne soient impactés par cette règle.

Pour moi ce point là retire l'intérêt de la règle 3 :
par exemple : lien, ce jeu sera donc considéré comme valide alors que ce ne devrait absolument pas être le cas.
Il faudrait modifier ce paragraphe pour dire que "seuls les jeux à un seul record ne seront pas impactés".

Seriously I don't know why you write in french. I have to use google traductor all the time to understand the messages
Quite annoying.
I don't write in spanish because almost nobody would understand me
SO

ENGLISH,

PLEASE

1. It is a French website.
2. You can express yourself in English on the subject. If you want to know what happens, someone you pleasure to answer you in English.

It struggles to find a solution on big games as Flow and Zuma. Too easily we could with only one or one group game to be among one of the top 5 of each site ranking. Flothaboss is a good example with games Flows one in particular with 20,000 records in one play. The problem we most is attract people to the site, as very few are motivated to play on several distribution platforms while only one game enough to pick up tons of points and turntables to completely crush the competition.

The solution brought the scourge games "no sense" is to set up a ranking medal: Gold, silver, bronze.

Veuillez lire les indications des solutions par l'administration en page 5, premier message.

Please to read indications of solutions by administrator in page 5, first message.

http://www.video-games-records.com/debat-debate-les-records-the-records-forum-t7504-p5.html

Lucario :

1. It is a French website.

Yes it is, but that is not a reason all members into have to speak/understand french...
To all french people, please, try to speak english for two-laguages topics, or at least, post both versions: 1 french and 1 google translated.
Thanks.


Anyway, KingBoo, this is the post I made Lucario told you above.
http://www.video-games-records.com/debat-debate-les-records-the-records-forum-t7504-p5.html#msg_111030
The current poll is talking about the 1st rule.

Thank you

I know it's a french page but here there is people from all countries so there's no reason to write in french imo.

OK, I just finished reading the entire topic

Here are my thoughts, about what was said and also some "new" ideas :

- "Medals/trophies per game" ranking (rule n°1) : why not. It won't solve any problem, but at least the amounts on the home page will be less impressive for new players. Gold/silver/bronze trophies are OK for me, there are no platinums in the Olympics, but I think they should be given only when there are at least 3 players on the game, just to make them mean something.

- VGR wants to attract international players ; only internationally available games should be added ! Games like A prendre ou à laisser have nothing to do here.

- Players need to give themselves goals to reach. I read that some people here have the same idea as me : VGR should offer more rankings. A page with an entirely customizable ranking would be really nice : sorting by console, type of game, medals, pointsGame, country, records with only N+ players, etc.
- We could change the rankings on the home page once a week, once a month... Again just so that people say "hey look, I'm in the top 5 for GameCube games ! maybe I could try getting the 3rd place". The pointsGame ranking should always be on the home page, but the second one could be a popular game ranking, a console ranking, etc.

- 3 players at least on a record for platinum sounds clever to me. I know the admins don't like it but I try again

- I agree with rule 3 ; we can always change the 60% percentage if we see that it's too much / not enough. I also think we should keep the possibility of manually reactivating a record in particular cases like those that were mentionned in this topic.

- Rule 3bis : ??? If all the records of a game are easily maxable, then the game is reactivated ??? I absolutely don't understand the point of this rule. Same thing for games with only 1 record : if it's a garbage record, then the game is disabled. End.

- I agree that no game/record should be deleted : only disabled for the rankings. This way VGR can keep its will to be an "encyclopedia" of records.

- Rule n°5 : is it for all smartphone games or only the free ones ? Anyway I agree with it, and it could also be used for free PC games.

- An idea just like this : what about a smartphone-dedicated VGR website ? Separated from the current VGR, with its own rankings, maybe a smartphone app... Competition would still exist, but it wouldn't worry the "true console" players anymore.

Asep :

- VGR wants to attract international players ; only internationally available games should be added ! Games like A prendre ou à laisser have nothing to do here.

I can't disagree more because import exist and a lot of games are US or JPN exclusive.

Sure, Japanese players will import A prendre ou à laisser

As always, exceptions are possible for "big" games...

You're against an "arbitrary" number of submissions per chart to determine platinum medals. But you're going to implement a jury system for deciding if games are suitable for adding. Doesn't that sound a bit arbitrary?

Good that something is being done though, those Flow games have made the medal table into a complete joke.

Asep :

Sure, Japanese players will import A prendre ou à laisser

As always, exceptions are possible for "big" games...

I think you have not understood my my thought. What I wanted to say is I find your idea too extrem because there is a lot of interesting games released only in JPN or USA. I'm not talking about A prendre ou a laisser but about every none internationally available games which include any game who is not released in every country.

If tomorrow somone suggest Dodonpachi on Saturn (it's just an exemple, it's already on VGR anyway), I should say no because it's a Japanese exclusive? That sound pretty stupid.

I agree with xdman. It's true that we want to be "international" but refusing a game because it is "only" available in a country seems contradictory with your idea of "encyclopedia" of records.

Sorry for having written my previous message in french but Asep sum up my ideas.
The rule 1 is not to solve the problem but to have a ranking based on games not on charts.
I like your idea of change the ranking on the home page (it's near from Barthax's idea), that way people will focus more than one ranking

About rule 3, we need to vote and test it before telling if 60% is correct. For 3bis I agree, if a game only has 1 maxable score it should be disabled.


Next, about rule 5 we first think about smartphone games but if the system works why not extend it to free computer games.


About your latest point, I want to agree but that way we can go with one website for each console... Maybe better than "true console" / smartphone because some will say PC is not a console, some will say... and we will be back to split anything another time.



Mandalore, Asep, about the number of submissions per chart to determine platinum medals let's say we will take 3 instead of 2 currently. Let's imagine VGR become famous and bring a lot of people.
How will you justify the choice of 3 when they will ask to go to 4 or 5 ?

I think 3 or 4 can be justified (for the number of gold-silver-bronze) but 4 seems quite high.
We can make a poll to see if people want 2 or 3. Let me know.

viviengaetan :

I agree with xdman. It's true that we want to be "international" but refusing a game because it is "only" available in a country seems contradictory with your idea of "encyclopedia" of records.

Then keep them but disable them for the rankings. Except, again, for "famous" games like Dodonpachi.
Someone will ask "how do we decide if an import game is famous enough ?". And I'll say these games are rare enough so that video games community is aware of it.


About the smartphone website, I'm pretty sure there are far more smartphone "separatists" than GameCube separatists :P
But it was just an idea like that, seeing the current development of smartphones and apps. There are more important things to discuss for the moment.


And I agree with a poll for the number of submissions per chart to determine platinum medals. 3 can be easily justified by saying that it's the minimum amount of contestants to have a complete podium.

niconoe :

Lucario :

1. It is a French website.

Yes it is, but that is not a reason all members into have to speak/understand french...
To all french people, please, try to speak english for two-laguages topics, or at least, post both versions: 1 french and 1 google translated.
Thanks.

Thank you!