[OK] Hypocritical BO2 Proof Refusal

I just saw my Rounds proof for Farm (R.41) in Green Run was refused because the proof picture was taken quote "before the game was over." However, my [url=http://www.video-games-records.com/call-of-duty-black-ops-ii-zombies-alcatraz-island-dlc-mob-of-the-dead-rounds-record-r427447.html]Mob of the Dead[/url] proof picture for Rounds (R.74) is of the exact same fashion, and [b]that[/b] proof picture was accepted, and to point a fact, that game [i]actually[/i] ended on round 78, I just don't have proof of round 78 other than an in-game leaderboard picture, which I tried for Round 124 on Buried, which was refused. So I sent in my [url=http://www.video-games-records.com/call-of-duty-black-ops-ii-zombies-resolution-1295-dlc-buried-rounds-record-r427451.html]Round 115[/url] mid-game picture, and [b][i]THAT[/b][/i] was also accepted. I could name [url=http://www.video-games-records.com/call-of-duty-black-ops-ii-zombies-great-leap-forward-dlc-die-riese-rounds-record-r427443.html]one other[/url] example, but you get my point. This seems very hypocritical of the proof mods to refuse this proof picture when they've accepted three other proof pictures of the exact same fashion before. So I guess my question is, [b][i]WHAT[/i][/b] is the proof standard for a BO2 Zombies Rounds chart proof picture? That standard is not clear, and I'd like a clear answer to this question. As far as I can see, there are two possible proof pictures you can do for these charts; mid-game picture taken during the round, (best done at the beginning of a round) or a picture of the Game Over message that includes how many rounds you survived, which I would love to do, but this screen only appears for a few seconds, and unlike in BO1, this screen cannot be paused to ready your camera for a picture, and the Game Over message disappears when your final stats are displayed, unlike in BO1. Unless in-game leaderboard pictures begin to be approved, these are the only two ways to prove a Rounds submission, and it seems clear to me which one is the easier proof picture to take.

Hello hfactor66, I'm the mod who reject your proof on your score in BO2. I did this because to me, a proof must show the end of a level, and not be taken in the middle of the game. I didn't know that you had other scores with the same type of proof which were accepted. I don't understand what you mean by "In-game leaderboard pictures", can you show me what it looks like and I will tell you if it can be a proof ? I would also know what the other members of the staff think of this, so I could then know if this kind of proof can be accepted or not ! Sorry for you hfactor if I rejected a prood that sould be accepted.

I see your problem, cause have played to BO2. I know the screen don't stay for a long time... Normally if I've a good memory u can check the leaderboard in the barrack (i dunno if this is the correct word in english language in the case of the game) and take the picture to Survival - Farm/town/bus depot/tranzit [b]I[/b] (that prove it's a solo record) All the necessary informations are on the screen except the number of round so for that u can concatenate to pictures : the final game one and the leaderboard that correspond to prove they are the same match. I know this story of several picture is difficult but unfortunately we can't really doing otherwise. Ultim'D: About in-game leaderboard he may understand the table of score to the end of the match and not after at the records table in the zombie menu.

Sorry hfactor66, but those "hypocritical" things are more than likely due to different Proof Admins. Each Game does not have a Specific rule for accepting or denying proof. The General Rules are usually What we go by. We are encouraged to check the games we are familiar with first, then check other proofs that we may not be familiar with and look for these things: Any identifiable name of the record being posted for, that the score in the proof matches the record (if not, we can edit the posted record to match the proof), and check that it overall looks legit. We can also look at the leaderboard of that record to see other proofs, but that sometimes is too much work since there isn't a button for us to go directly there easily (there is a way, but it can mess up things accidentally). After these things, it really depends on the Proof Admin who checks the proof. They decide whether it is accepted or denied. Different Proof admins deem certain things as passing, while others are a bit more strict. Those Hypocritical Proof Refusals are simply the result of different proof admins who have their own view of a Legit Proof. I, personally, have avoided Black Ops Proofs because they do not clearly show the Record in question clearly to someone who isn't familiar with the levels of the game.

[quote=Dark Eon Master]Sorry hfactor66, but those "hypocritical" things are more than likely due to different Proof Admins.[/quote] Well [b]that[/b] would have been nice to know. Also I guess I can't blame the proof admin for doing their job, but at the same time, and I hope you understand my frustration, I'm sending in a proof picture, with no idea how any of this works, going only off of my prior knowledge of what types of proofs I've had accepted and denied in the past. I don't know who sees my proof picture, and the automated messages I get that tell me what's been accepted and denied don't tell me that either, so how am I supposed to know who actually made the decision? And now, I'm basically being told that my prior knowledge of what kinds of proof I've had accepted and denied on a game means [b]nothing,[/b] because it's entirely up to the mod that sees it first. I'm basically being told that I have to [b]hope and pray[/b] that I get a proof admin that understands the game well enough to know whether to accept or deny it. :angry: [i]ugh.[/i] I understand that many games make it easy and convenient to provide proof for a record that is easy to understand, like many iOS games for example. Games like Unblock 4000+, Angry Birds & Cut the Rope. With all of these games, it's pretty easy to tell the level, and the stat being proven, so little to no prior knowledge of the game is needed. [quote=Dark Eon Master]I, personally, have avoided Black Ops Proofs because they do not clearly show the Record in question clearly to someone who isn't familiar with the levels of the game.[/quote] ...then you have games like this, that don't always provide an easy way for someone to take a proof picture, or a proof admin whose never played the game to tell whether or not the proof is valid. This is where prior knowledge of the game really makes a difference, because someone who has played the game before can recognize things like the game mode & the level just by looking at the picture, whereas someone who has not won't pick up on these important visual cues. [quote=tomgeek]Normally if I've a good memory u can check the leaderboard in the barrack (i dunno if this is the correct word in english language in the case of the game) and take the picture to Survival - Farm/town/bus depot/tranzit[/quote] I know exactly what you're talking about, and going back to the beginning of my existence on VGR, I tried this for my first Buried submissions, but they were refused. From then on, I assumed that this sort of proof was invalid. I guess we'll find out... [quote=Ultim'D]I don't understand what you mean by "In-game leaderboard pictures", can you show me what it looks like and I will tell you if it can be a proof ?[/quote] [url=http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=XaTRJmVkC3fEoMQGS4zFr4h4l5k2TGxc]Example on Tinypic.[/url] Tell me if the link doesn't work, and I'll try uploading it elsewhere. In conclusion, I am but a humble member of this great gaming site, one of over 4700, but I do hope the insight I've offered is of some value to you & the proofing staff. I don't think of the proofing staff as what I said before, and creating this thread has given me a greater respect for what you and the rest of the proofing staff do for this site. Keep on keeping on. P.S. If you read the entire thing, you're awesome.

I read it hfactor66, don't worry, I kept an eye on this topic :ok: Thanks for recognizing what proof controllers have done.:smile: Dark Eon Master well resumed the situation: we do what we can, and with clues we have, let by people who know well the game in question. This topic is a good opportunity to tell you some things about your proofs: personally, I checked and valid some of them, in games like Star Wars Battlefront (where I let some for later, I remember), Angry Birds or Cut The Rope. I don't possess these last 2 games, but like you said it was easy to understand the level, and also there were already others proofs accepted before, showing the right way to proove. But for Angry Birds, you send 2 types of proofs: some show the level number, and others not, so I let this to other Proof Admins. You need to know this: if you want your proofs quickly accepted, you can (or should) explain to everybody how to valid the proofs, in the Game Forum for example. This is particularly important in games where there is some specific features, different ways for prooving, or where there is not active Proof Admins who played your game. Take a look at this example: [url=http://www.video-games-records.com/help-and-rules-for-prooving-forum-t7727-p1.html]Help and rules for prooving[/url]. You can also ask a referent member (often the MB owner), a Proof Admin who played the game, or directly 33Tails (the Proof Admins boss), or another follower VGR Team member. Every help can be precious, thanks.:smile:

[quote=hfactor66][quote=Ultim'D]I don't understand what you mean by "In-game leaderboard pictures", can you show me what it looks like and I will tell you if it can be a proof ?[/quote] [url=http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=XaTRJmVkC3fEoMQGS4zFr4h4l5k2TGxc]Example on Tinypic.[/url] Tell me if the link doesn't work, and I'll try uploading it elsewhere. In conclusion, I am but a humble member of this great gaming site, one of over 4700, but I do hope the insight I've offered is of some value to you & the proofing staff. I don't think of the proofing staff as what I said before, and creating this thread has given me a greater respect for what you and the rest of the proofing staff do for this site. Keep on keeping on. P.S. If you read the entire thing, you're awesome.[/quote] I think the kind of proof you send in this message could make it, but I need to know what the other think of that. Can we see the name of the level of the score on the photo ? I didn't see it. I think it's really important to have these kind of topics on the site, to talk and to fix the problems we have. I really understand your frustation, but I had the choice between make a choice on the proof or let it stay in the proof admin. Since i played BO1, I chosed to handle this proof !I hope we will find a solution to your problem :smile:

[quote=Ultim'D] I think the kind of proof you send in this message could make it, but I need to know what the other think of that. Can we see the name of the level of the score on the photo ? I didn't see it. I think it's really important to have these kind of topics on the site, to talk and to fix the problems we have. I really understand your frustation, but I had the choice between make a choice on the proof or let it stay in the proof admin. Since i played BO1, I chosed to handle this proof !I hope we will find a solution to your problem :smile:[/quote] Yes, there's some pretty dramatic differences from BO1 to BO2 in Zombies mode. BO1 is much easier to prove, because the Game Over messages is accompanied with your stats, so you can prove them all at once if all 4 of them are coming from the same game. BO2 is the only one of the 3 BO games where the Game Over message that includes your Rounds Survived is not accompanied with your stats, so you have to do multiple proof pictures, one for Rounds, one for Score, Kills & Headshots, assuming all 3 are coming from the same game. Here, let me break down that picture from Tinypic I uploaded. [IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/295svg5.jpg[/IMG] It says Survival Farm on top, so that clarifies the map, but clarifying that it is solo can't easily be told from the picture, that I understand. There is a way to tell that it is solo on this map, because for Solo on this map (and every other map) you get 3 revives, (although many maps on BO2 & BO3 allow extra revives through other means) allowing for a maximum of 4 downs in the Downs category. It's a leaderboard, so there's many scores observable, but the person who you're most likely looking for is the name that's yellow & highlighted, which will likely be the player submitting the record. Their highest round will be next to their name. If my PSN name threw you off, (Amy_Rose__) it threw someone off when I was submiting MW3 proofs too and I had to clarify that for them. I'm good with determining COD proofs, hell on MW3 Special Ops Missions I can determine what level the proof is for just by the mission complete screen, save for the two time trial missions, and gave those tips to a proof admin, so if you're confused about something in a COD proof it's likely I'll be able to tell. I've played every COD there is on PS3. P.S. BO2 could include more Zombies charts for the Global leaderboard section like it includes the overall score chart in Campaign :smile: and Ghosts could include the other 3 DLC Extinction maps as well as Chaos mode charts & charts for Hardcore difficulty.

I want to know what think the other member of the VGR Team of that but I think this kind of proof could be accepted then :smile:

It's a little bit different in english language : in french for example (not necessarly the only language like this) a "I" follow the name of the chart in the leaderboard and specify the game has been played from A to Z in solo, and not with several players that leave the game ust before the end of the match and make appear only one player on the final screen.

[quote=tomgeek]It's a little bit different in english language : in french for example (not necessarly the only language like this) a "I" follow the name of the chart in the leaderboard and specify the game has been played from A to Z in solo, and not with several players that leave the game ust before the end of the match and make appear only one player on the final screen.[/quote] On BO2, when you play a co-op game, the round is only saved to a leaderboard if the game is completed with the same number of players. If a player leaves, the round will not be saved, even if it surpasses a player's previous best round. On the English version, there are roman numerals on the leaderboards like you said that indicates whether it is for 1, 2, 3 or 4 players. When you open the leaderboard up to see your ranking, however, it cannot be told just by looking at it whether or not you're playing solo in some cases.

Oh yeah, now I remember it enough. It's been awhile since I hadn't played to BO2, and still less in Zombie mode... At present, I remember the fact that on the menu, the roman numerals are apparent, but not on the leaderboard when we select one of the modes plus a number of players, that saved each best 1/2/3/4-match especially in one player (thus solo): the case where we are interested. The solution is to make a video showing which leaderboard is selected, as some VGR players already do for other games in this case.

[quote=tomgeek](...) The solution is to make a video showing which leaderboard is selected, as some VGR players already do for other games in this case.[/quote] Even if I didn't' read other details and I don't possess the game, I agree this is the best solution. In case of any other proof showed by a picture, please delete it, and advert Admins if other players send picture proof in the next future. PS: my idea of a "Game Rule" or "Game Specificities" window or text needs to be applied (I still hope :so:), here we have another example...

[quote=tomgeek]The solution is to make a video showing which leaderboard is selected, as some VGR players already do for other games in this case.[/quote] Sounds like the only reasonable solution to this issue of proving rounds on BO2 Zombies. Treyarch really should have just kept the same game over screen style from BO1 to BO2. At least if BO3 is ever added to the site for Zombies charts we won't have this problem, cuz Treyarch went back to that BO1 game over screen style with BO3 Zombies. :smile: [quote=zephyraz] PS: my idea of a "Game Rule" or "Game Specificities" window or text needs to be applied (I still hope :so:), here we have another example...[/quote] Indeed, this does serve as an excellent example of a game that needs a game-specific rule for proving these select few records.