More points for proven records

I think it's already be offered on VGR but I did not find a topic like this in the forum. I think for VGR  gaining credibility, we need to encourage players to post more proofs on the site, because even though recently the number of proofs has increased in evidence is not sufficient to say that it is general. That's why I think we have to encourage players to post more proofs by giving more points to players who proves their scores. In fact we could give these points on a form of increase calculated on a percentage. For example, a score prove could be worth 50% more than a score unproven, which would instead of 100 points for a score, 150 points. When we see some players who have all proven scores like  flothaboss and are not rewarded, I find it a pity, see unfair to some.
We can of course choose the percentage increase, it can be for example 25% to start slowly and then increase it.

Je pense que ca a deja du etre propose sur vgr mais je n'ai pas trouve de topic sur ca dans le forum. Je pense pour que vgr gagne en credibilite, nous devons inciter les joueurs a poster plus de preuves sur le site, car meme si dernierement le nombre de preuves a augmente ce n'est pas suffisant pour dire que cela est general. C'est pourquoi je pense que nous pourrions inciter les joueurs a poster plus de preuves en donnant plus de points pour les joueurs qui prouvent leurs scores. En fait on pourrait donner ces points sont une forme de majoration calcule sur un pourcentage. Par exemple, un score prouve pourrait valoir 50% de plus qu'un score non prouvee, ce qui ferait au lieu de 100 points pour un score, 150 points. Je me dis en plus quand on voit certains joueurs qui ont tout prouvees comme flothaboss et qui ne sont pas recompensee, je trouve ca dommage, voir injuste pour certains.

this idea sounds in my brain 4 a very long time.
i think also that a new #1 score must b proven.
i always prove and mostly players post a new #1 score without proof.
this is getting on my nerves.
so many times when i asked 4 proof the player was not able 2 prove and the score was deleted.

I can see both sides to this. While it would encourage more proving, it would be unfair on those where proving records is a lengthy process*.  Also, even 25% is still really steep. On some games, a player would get as much as 10,000 points per record just because they have a picture and you don't.

*For example, I either have to take pictures off a recorded DVD or take a picture on my phone, copy it off SD card to my laptop, copy it via mp3 player to my brother's laptop. That's a pain.

On top of this, a proven record should not be worth more than a higher ranked record, and that is what would happen.

http://www.vgr-fr.com/Tony-Hawk-s-Downhill-Jam-Longest-Rail-Race-Machu-Picchu-Mountain-High-record-r103178.html

Nickoo07's record is in 6th place. It is proven.
Kirby's is in 5th place. It is not proven.
Nickoo07's record is worth 343 points
Kirby's is worth 419 points.
If you put a 25% increase on Nickoo07's record, it is worth 429 points

That would be unfair to kirby, since his record is better.

The more players you have, the more unfair it gets:

http://www.vgr-fr.com/Wii-Sports-Training-Tennis-Returning-Balls-record-r10629.html

Nickwii's score of 3 is in 180th place. It is worth 106 points
lolo's score of 17 is in 167th. It is worth 131 points
If nickwii proved his record, he would overtake a player whose record is nearly 6 times better than his

In theory, it's a good idea. In practice, it is not I'm afraid.

shrouwehkuggah :

i think also that a new #1 score must b proven.

Despite being a big culprit of that, I do agree with you

Yes I think like you legend, it's from a good feeling but it's totally unfair.
Also, there are VGR Points who take in consideration of the proofs.

Like PSR, I can see both sides.

It's obvious that's a proven score is way better than the same score without proof.

But for SSBB, SW hasn't send a lot of proofs, but all of his records are proven somewhere else. He should lost his leader rank because of the lack of proof here.

I don't understand why is it unfair. Everybody can post proofs, so everybody could make more points. A player who lost a position because someone post a proof, has just to post a proof to recover his position. Also a proven records is always better than an unproven record. But there is no award for a people who prove his record.

So actually, it is useless to prove a record, and player who make this effort is not awarded. This is unfair. But you can't say that this increase is unfair. Everybody could post a proof. You know i have a 512 ko connection and i have to take picture with a mobile phone. It's long for me to proove a score to.

What do you think about a global ranking which only considers proved scores?

I don't think it should be added to the games rankings.

The best should be 1 more point for each record proven, not a lot but something like a symbol.

It's a good idea NP but it's more symbolic than useful, because like the proof ranking, it will not be important and i think it's not this that will be incit players to proves. Maybe 25 % it's too much, but we can make it progressive, like 10 % in first time, and in 3 month 20 %.

C'est une bonne idee mais je pense que c'est plus symbolique que utile, comme le classement des preuves postes. Ca va pas inciter les joueurs a poster plus de preuves. Peut etre que 25 % d'augmentation c'est un peu trop d'un coup, on peut commencer a 10 % histoire que les membres s'habituent et commencent a prouver, puis on passe par exemple dans 3 mois a 20 %, enfin ca se discute ca.

On pourrait pas avoir une traduction française de chacun des posts ?
Ma foi, ce débat m'a l'air intéressant.

Robotrock :

I don't understand why is it unfair. Everybody can post proofs, so everybody could make more points. A player who lost a position because someone post a proof, has just to post a proof to recover his position.

Well for starters we have a proof ranking and proving records is a minor part of the site. If I post a record and prove, but it equals a record of someone else, I should not get more points for it. We get points for records here, so my points should equal the guy with the same record

Also a proven records is always better than an unproven record. But there is no award for a people who prove his record.

viviengaetan :

Also, there are VGR Points who take in consideration of the proofs.

Also, a random example:
http://www.vgr-fr.com/1941-Counter-Attack-All-records-groupe-g7121.html

You spend weeks trying to get a score of 1,464,473,298,209,876,363, but don't prove it(even though you can if you wanted to). I then come in, spend 20 seconds and post a score of 2. And prove it. I would get more points than you and overtake you. I don't think you would find that particularly fair.

Another example:

http://www.vgr-fr.com/Tony-Hawk-s-Downhill-Jam-Race-San-Francisco-Twin-Peaks-record-r13302.html

HeartAngel's record is better than mine. I trust him. Just because I proved mine and he didn't does not make my record better than his. Logically I don't deserve more points than him, and thusly I don't get more points than him. It's a system that is fine as it is.

So actually, it is useless to prove a record, and player who make this effort is not awarded.

We have a ranking for proofs

This is unfair. But you can't say that this increase is unfair.

You spend weeks trying to get a score of 1,464,473,298,209,876,363, but don't prove it. I then come in, spend 20 seconds and post a score of 2. And prove it. I would get more points than you and overtake you.

We have a system that follows the age old principle of \"you post a better record, you get more points\". That is a system that, rightfully, never fails. I don't think that should change.

The only way this should be incorporated would be to separate ties. In that case, MAYBE, a proven record is better than an unproven one. It should not be used on untied records because it gets rid of the whole point of posting records on the site

thelegendarypsr :

Well for starters we have a proof ranking and proving records is a minor part of the site. If I post a record and prove, but it equals a record of someone else, I should not get more points for it. We get points for records here, so my points should equal the guy with the same record

Yes i understand, but I think proving records should not be something minor. It is important to have a credible site and clean, because VGR actually can't be a reference. A proven score gives us the guarantee that is fair and that competition is fair. The same score unproven offers no such guarantee. A score proven necesseraly will have more value to us than the other score. Yet there is no reward that follows behind.

Oui je comprend mais je pense que prouver ses records ne devrait pas etre une chose mineur. C'est important que le site soit credible et propre, car actuellement VGR n'est pas une reference. Un score prouve nous donne la garantie qu'il est vrai et aue la competition est juste. Le meme record non prouve nous offre pas cette garantie. Un score prouve va necessairement avoir plus de valeur a nos yeux que l'autre record. Pourtant il n'y a aucune recompense qui suit derriere.

viviengaetan :

Also, there are VGR Points who take in consideration of the proofs.

VGR Points are totally useless.

Les points VGR sont totalement inutiles.

Also, a random example:
http://www.vgr-fr.com/1941-Counter-Attack-All-records-groupe-g7121.html

You spend weeks trying to get a score of 1,464,473,298,209,876,363, but don't prove it(even though you can if you wanted to). I then come in, spend 20 seconds and post a score of 2. And prove it. I would get more points than you and overtake you. I don't think you would find that particularly fair.

Another example:

http://www.vgr-fr.com/Tony-Hawk-s-Downhill-Jam-Race-San-Francisco-Twin-Peaks-record-r13302.html

HeartAngel's record is better than mine. I trust him. Just because I proved mine and he didn't does not make my record better than his. Logically I don't deserve more points than him, and thusly I don't get more points than him. It's a system that is fine as it is.

For your first example, if the player did not take picture, then he is really stupid. When you do a crazy score like this you takes a picture anyway, because it is always the risk that someone makes a request for proof. If the player has not taken a picture, he made a big mistake and he can only blame himself.

For the second, maybe you trust HeartAngel. But me or a newcomer on the website don't know heartangel, so we don't know if we can trust in him. For exemple Maybe we don't know you. If you post a proove, logically we will finally trust you more than heartangel.

Pour le premier exemple, si le joueur n'a pas pris de photo, alors il est vraiment stupide. Quand tu fais un enorme score comme ca, tu prend une photo de toute facon, car y a toujours le risque qu'on te demande une preuve. Si le joueur n'a pas pris de photo, il a fait une grosse erreur et il peut se prendre qu'a lui meme.

Pour le second, peut etre que tu as confiance en HeartAngel, mais moi ou un nouveau venu sur VGR ne connais pas ce joueur, donc on ne peut pas savoir si on peut lui faire confiance. Par exemple peut etre on te connais pas. Si tu poste une preuve, logiquement on devrait quand meme faire plus confiance a toi qu'a heartangel.

We have a ranking for proofs

Only ranking for points and medals ranking are counting in VGR. This ranking is more symbolic than useful, as i already said to Ninplayers.

Seulement les classements medailles et points comptent sur VGR. Le classement preuve est plus symbolique qu'utile, comme je l'ai dis a NP.

We have a system that follows the age old principle of \"you post a better record, you get more points\". That is a system that, rightfully, never fails. I don't think that should change.

I post this message just to say I think it would be good to add to the value of proven records.

Je poste justement ce message parce que je pense qu'il serait bon d'ajouter aussi la valeur des records prouves.

I also think it's not a good idea to have more points for a proven record. A picture of a record doesn't increase the substance of the record : it's exactly the same.

Maybe the platinum medal could be awarded exclusively if the record is proved. If not, it's just a gold one. It's certainly too late for this though, people would have hundreds of proof to provide...

Robotrock :

For your first example, if the player did not take picture, then he is really stupid. When you do a crazy score like this you takes a picture anyway, because it is always the risk that someone makes a request for proof. If the player has not taken a picture, he made a big mistake and he can only blame himself.

I did say he can prove the record, he just has chosen not to.

For the second, maybe you trust HeartAngel. But me or a newcomer on the website don't know heartangel, so we don't know if we can trust in him. For exemple Maybe we don't know you. If you post a proove, logically we will finally trust you more than heartangel.

It doesn't make his record worse than mine and, as a result, I don't deserve to have more points than him

I post this message just to say I think it would be good to add to the value of proven records.

I think it should only apply to ties, as it can be used as a good separator

Est-ce que vous parlez des points VGR? Si oui, à quoi ça servirai d'en donner plus pour prouver? On ne sait même pas à quoi ça sert ces points là. J'aimerai comprend un peu mieux ce sujet. Je crois n'avoir pas bien compris le premier message lancé. Ça m'a l'air intéressant.

c'est un classement de nos action sur le site
les records posté, les preuves, message, vidéo

Dans le futur ces points pourraient nous servir d'argent pour acheté des objets

Ça n'a pas dérangé personne pour le moment. Pourquoi Robotrock fait la traduction anglophone en français alors? Je ne me sens pas motivé d'écrire en anglais à chaque fois que je croise un topic en anglais. C'est trop long de tout traduire à chaque fois. Même que parfois, ce n'est pas parfait la traduction. Ça ne me rend pas à l'aise du tout. C'est poche de découvrir un sujet intéressant par hasard dans les derniers topics ouverts sans pouvoir parler des deux langues. Un moment donné, on risque de faire disparaître la langue française de cette façon.

À ce que je comprends, Robotrock propose une augmentation de points pour les preuves et non pour le record en tant tel? Ça serait une bonne source de motivaiton. J'aimerai pouvoir partager mon opinion sans être confronté par l'anglais. Liberté d'expression. Je ne veux pas que ça me porte la confusion si je me trompes.

It is with the passage to V6 that the legitimacy of the players proving their records is recognized and development, that thanks to the classification proof on the one hand.  So the number of records proven increases more quickly, it is already well to have arrived of it

If not is the evidence recognized and taken into account in the pointsVGR and to my knowledge a photograph proof is worth 20 pointsVGR, a video proof is worth 50 of them it seems to me (somebody can it confirm?  thank you).  The problem it is that these points are not emphasized enough.  I thus think that a PointsVGR classification would be it welcome in my humble opinion.  

Also, the idea to increase the points of a proven record is good in theory, but as said Thelegendarypsr it is not it in practice. Difficult to explain, but it is a little foolish, a record, which it is proven or not, thus there remains a record will be worth the same number of points.  

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C'est avec le passage à la V6 que la légitimité des joueurs prouvant leurs records est reconnu et mise un peu mieux en valeur, et cela grâce au classement preuve d'une part. De ce fait le nombre de records prouvé augmente plus vite, c'est déjà bien d'en être arrivé là.

Sinon les preuves sont reconnu et prises en compte dans les points VGR et à ma connaissance une preuve photo vaut 20 pointsVGR, une preuve vidéo en vaut 50 il me semble (quelqu'un peut il confirmer, merci). Le problème c'est que ces points ne sont pas assez mis en valeur. Je pense donc qu'un classement PointsVGR serait le bienvenue à mon humble avis.

Sinon, l'idée d'augmenter les points d'un record prouvé est bonne en théorie, mais comme disait Thelegendarypsr elle ne l'est pas en pratique. Difficile à expliquer, mais c'est un peu insensé, un record, qu'il soit prouvé ou non, reste un record donc il vaudra le même nombre de points.

Pour les arguments, pas vraiment. J'ai utilisé le traducteur pour comprendre un peu mieux ce qui disait les autres. En tout cas, ce n'est pas mon intention du tout de gêner qui que se soit non plus.

Pour les preuves, ça serait une bonne chose. Au moins, on verra mieux la qualité de joueur sur un jeu spécifique. Car, j'aimerai que certains qui viennent de d'autres comme CS entre autre qui prouvent autant de record que leur site référentiel pour qu'on leur compétence dans les jeux qu'ils parcourent tous. Ça me rend fou de voir de bon joueurs qui ont des comptes Youtube ou autre tel que Emperor91 ou encore Nintendo Star sur Yoshi Island DS et Mario Kart Double Dash, par exemple, qui ne prouve quasiment pas ici à moins de leur demander une preuve. C'est insensé. J'aimerai pouvoir au moins voir un strict minumum sur des grands jeux comme Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash bros., Guitar Hero, DDR et etc.

Pour savoir comment le joueur se débrouille là-dedans. 2 ou trois preuves sur pluiseurs jeux connus, ce n'est pas suffissant à mon goût. Il manque de quoi. De très bon score difficilement battable sans que ça soit un score maximum. Qu'est-ce qu'on voit généralement? Pratiquement pas de preuve sur le jeu. C'est comme pour Omégaknuckles sur les jeux de Sonic qui bat des records du monde presqu'à 10 000 points d'écart de l'ancien \"World Record\". Tu voyais avant dans son profil : \"The killer of Sonic's Game.\" Quelque chsoe du genre. Personne ne remarque à rien comme si de rien n'était et le laisse poster sans lui demander au moins une vidéo pour nous montrer sa compétence dans ses jeux. Owned me l'avait fait remarqué. Mais, ce n'est pas tout. Je pourrai en nommer plein de nom dépendamment des jeux que je parcoures moi-même et je vois la grosse catastrophe au niveau des preuves des premières places. Très décevant à mon goût.

Je pourrai presque parler de Division X qui a complétement rit de moi en m'envoyant un m.p. dans la version 5 du site en doutant que je lui ai demandé un preuve sur Mario Strikers Charged qui n'avait jamais prouvé d'ailleurs. Heureusement, il n'a pas reposté dessus par la suite. Combien on voit de preuves sur Mario Kart wii et Pokémon stadium 2? 0. Je ne doutes pas de ses compétences en tant que courseurs, mais j'aimerai bien voir au moins quelques preuves là-dedans sur des records importants. Pas des petits records qui sont faciles à battre où je suis 30e place, par exemple.

En ce qui concerne les personnes surclassées, Kirby54 mérite enplement sa crédibilité au sein de VGR même si il ne prouve pas beaucoup. Il organise même des tournois parfois dans sa cité pour le plaisir et même attirer des gens sur VGR. Je ne vois l'intérêt de l'investiguer malgré qu'il soit le meilleur joueur du site. Pour Triple HHH, il me semble qu'il s'est retiré définitivement de la compétition VGR. Il a aussi une vie bien occupée : Le travail, la famille et un toit où se loger. Troisièmement, même si Packattack arrêtait la veille de nous concotter une vidéo de qualité pour nous montrer ces astuces de fous que personne n'aurait jamais imaginer possible, personne ne pourra contre-dire le talent d'un maître des jeux vidéos. Pareil pour Floathaboss qui ne cesse de prouver chaqu'un de ses records à 100%. Il mérite encore plus notre confiance.

En dernier recours, l'idée est excellente, mais ça ne servira pas à grand chose à mon égard. Certains vont continuer à poster sans prouver quoi que se soit ou seulement très peu. Il faudra trouver une autre solution de sensibiliser les joueurs à prouver plus les scores ou leurs temps. J'opterai plutôt pour un grade pour évaluer la qualité du joueur dans chacun des ses jeux.


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For arguments, not really. I used the translator to understand better what the other said. In any case, it is not my intention at all to interfere with that whatsoever either.

For evidence, it would be a good thing. At least we will see better quality player on a specific game. Because I'd like some who come from other CS as much to prove, among other record repository for their site that their competence in all the games they cover. It makes me crazy to see good players who have accounts as Youtube or other Nintendo Emperor91 or Star of Yoshi Island DS and Mario Kart Double Dash, for example, that hardly proves here unless they ask for proof. It's insane. I wish I could at least see a bare minumum of great games like Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash bros., Guitar Hero, DDR, and so on.

For information on how the player is doing there. Two or three proofs of several distribution known games, it's not enough for my taste. It lacks anything. Very good score easily beatable without it is a maximum score. What you see usually? Virtually no evidence about the game It's like Omégaknuckles the Sonic games that beats the world record almost 10 000 points away from the old \"World Record\". Before you could see in his profile: \"The killer of Sonic's Game.\" Something of genre. Nobody notices anything as if nothing had happened and let post without asking at least one video to show us its expertise in its games. Owned me had noticed. But that's not all. I can name a lot of names depending on the games that I travel myself and I see the big disaster in evidence of the first places. Very disappointing for my taste.

I can almost speak of Division X has completely laughing at me by sending me a mp in Version 5 of the site in question that I asked him a proof of Mario Strikers Charged which had never been proven elsewhere. Fortunately, it has not reposted it later. How we see evidence of Mario Kart Wii and Pokemon Stadium 2? 0. I do not doubt his skills as racers, but I'd like to see at least some evidence in there to record important. No small records that are easy to beat when I'm 30th place, for example.

As for those upgraded, Kirby54 enplement deserves credibility in VGR even if it does not prove much. He even organized some tournaments in his city for fun and even attract people on VGR. I do not see the interest of investigating despite being the best player on the site. For Triple HHH, I think he has retired from competition VGR. He also has a busy life: work, family and a roof where to stay. Third, even if Packattack arrested the day before we concotter quality video to show us those crazy tricks that no one could ever imagine possible, no one can say against the talent of a master of video games. Same for Floathaboss ever to prove her literally every record to 100%. He deserves our confidence even more.

Ultimately, the idea is excellent, but it will not serve much use to me. Some will continue to post without proving anything at all or only very little. We must find another solution to educate the players to show more scores or their time. I will opt instead for a grade to assess the quality of the player in each of its games.

You seemed to go off on a tangent there Lucario

Vous avez semblé aller loin sur une tangente il Lucario

You seemed to go off on a tangent there Lucario

Vous avez semblé aller loin sur une tangente il Lucario

I think this topic needs to get back on track a little. It should really be about:
1 - Robotrock's opening suggestion.
2 - People's thoughts on Robotrock's opening suggestion
3 - Alternative suggestions

I'm not sure what:
1 - CS has to do with anything
2 - Freedom of speech has to do with anything
3 - Who proves what and who sends what PM to whom
4 - What spoiler has to do with anything

On that note:

I have already discussed that it would simply be unfair to apply Robotrock's initial suggestion to all records as a lower ranked record does not deserve more points than a higher placed record, proven or not. I do however recommend that Robotrock's initial suggestion could be used as a separator for ties