Zimer
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Now, come back with Zimer:
Zimer of course used “pause-savestates” tool, to make amazing scores where it is possible.
I noticed this since a long time ago (in 2018, just few months after his return), since he beaten scores in faster intervals of time than it is possible to do after an original console switch off.
You can check for example:
The Revenge of Shinobi
MB image
To make a score of 1 million like narutokyuby does (previous MB owner 2013-2018), you need to spend lot of hours to play and finish the game, I would say.
When you look now the MB history, you can see that Zimer took back 10 times the MB to JesseLeePorter. No problem with the MB changes.
But the interval of time, the 2 proofs sent by Zimer and JesseLeePorter (placed at the first available level when you can come back easily and don’t loose and how it was done is clearly showing that you can’t make such scores so quickly (notably the last ones, and the one made the 16th December 2018, in less than 1 day), and when you know that it usually takes around 1 hour to make 100 000 pts score (like the best score of Basile).
So, beating a 12 million score would need … 120 hours.
It is technically impossible to beat this score in 1 or even 2 days.
So Zimer, and JesseLeePorter logically too, used pause-savestates, present in the Wii.
Shinobi III
MB image
I possess this game with its Sega MD Classics version, on Ultimate Collection compilation game, and on MD Mini, where there are savestates.
I possess this game on MD Classic version, where there is no savestate (like in the original game).
In this game, there is some places to accumulate points without dying.
Identically to The Revenge of Shinobi, only pause-savestates or savestates can explain the quick time length between MB acquisition.
Please note that this was lost and won 20 times between November 2018 and January 2019, so in the same period than The Revenge of Shinobi. Notably the 16th December, in less than 1 day too…
Only pause-savestates uses (and abuse) can explain this repetitive MB changes.
Shadow Dancer: The Secret of Shinobi
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Zimer's Badges
Game link
Same problem than previously.
14) Pac-Man (NES)
The picture proof sent by Zimer confirms that it was played on Wii Virtual Console, and not on the original NES game.
Because of probable use of “pause-savestates” here (see comments upthere), Wii and NES versions should be splitted.
15) Version problem with Cosmic Bugs
On the 4 questions I asked him last year, his answers were not satisfying, wide of the mark, so let to think that he cheated.
He wanted to hide the fact he played with a different game version, called Cosmo Bots, with different game conditions, and even admitted that he owns the 2 versions.
Then, he intentionally played both versions when only one is on VGR, and probably hided the name game when it is always convenient for his score and ranking.
One more time, he don’t understand that on VGR you need to play with equal conditions or versions to be sure that you can make fair comparisons and rankings.
He has no strange feelings or no worries about that.
This is the behavior of a cheater, I consider this as a cheat.
He did not answered to my ask (and Triple HHH too) for video proof.
Due to this, his scores in this game will be deleted, and Game Rules will be updated:
“You must play the Cosmic Bugs 2004 version (by Retro64 Inc.). For proving, video proof is mandatory for the Hall of fame highscore, and for Bonus points and Percentage filled, Cosmic Bugs should be written and visible on the proof.”
EDIT 21/11/2022: Zimer sent 4 proofs for this game, during his ban, which should not be possible. These 4 proofs respect the new Game Rules, so have been maintained. All the other scores+proofs have been deleted, DONE.
16) Multiplayer in Mario Bros
The proof picture sent by Zimer with 2 scores at the top screen can let think that he used multiplayer (like WeedKiller87 also).
I can also refer to Mobygames site were it’s written that you obtain this kind of screen when “Starting a new two player game”, which supposed that 2 player game was already played before.
In many videos I watched, I did not see a demo, like Zimer sent, which show a game start with 2 players scores screen.
But even if it’s weird (why did he choose this moment to take the picture ?), I will trust the demo video sent by Zimer, where 2 scores are visible.
So, picture proof comes from the demo screen, this score seems legit.
Because it was played on Wii, and due to possible (probable) pause-savestates uses (see upthere comments), it will be splitted from the original game.
17) Odd score in Chicken Shoot
Problem solved, Zimer sent video proofs.
Odd score is possible in Chicken Egg Mode.
Rollover video proof can be accepted for Arcade Mode, so maximum score is 99 995.
18) Sonic The Hedgehog 2
Zimer don’t own the Megadrive/Genesis or Megadrive/Genesis Classic version, it was played on Wii VC.
This behavior is not appropriate, when you don’t care about older versions, or if you ignore options or game differences.
You should post your records in the right place, take care.
This should now be considered as a different game version, due to pause-savestates option (see comments upthere).
So his 5 scores will be moved there (Wii version).
19) Prehistorik Man
Zimer played probably on Switch (with savestates), because he don’t own 90’s games like this one, and the Wii VC doesn’t exist.
One more time, this behavior is not appropriate, when you don’t care about older versions, or if you ignore options or game differences.
You should post your records in the right place, take care.
Zimer’s score will be moved on a new Switch game (which needs to be created).
20) Linker uses, database changes and savestates in Bust A Move DS
A full run video proof was asked by Triple HHH.
No answer since 11th November 2021.
This requires more investigations and details, and new updates made (already) by the Council, concerning linker uses.
I will bring informations about this later.
See comments upthere for details in 20 problematic things... 🤯
CONCLUSIONS :
Zimer used multiplayer, at least in 1) and 11).
Zimer did not played the right versions of games like in 15).
Due to this, he doesn’t respect the VGR Rules again (remember he was already banned in the past), and needs a new ban level 1, for a 4 months period, so until 22th November 2022.
Note that we applied this ban levels after his 2018 returnal, so we can’t apply a stronger ban.
Last but not least, he also very probably used savestates in many games where he don’t own the original versions, all the 90’s SNES and Genesis/Megadrive ones.
He sent his scores in wrong places for PC Engine, SNES and Genesis/Megadrive.
He totally don’t care about this, ignoring the fair competition on VGR and respecting its members.
He don’t tell all the required details when there is doubts, which is not a responsible attitude.
Especially when you are a past cheater, and when you must make more efforts for redemption.
Video for Bust a move DS was sent time ago.
For Cosmic Bugs you received a video in whre over than 100% is possible by PM. This picture proves that video isn't necessary. Cosmic bugs is written in image. For Hall of game I must say that 999999 is the best score during gameplay, after loss, real score is shown but without "Cosmic bugs" witten.
For In the Groove, to bad but I haven't played that game in over than 10 years and I don't have game anymore. I remember that this kind of scores are common outside of VGR.
I'm feel sad for VGR's reversion.
Holy shit I didn't know there were so many suspicions... And those are the ones we found.
Why someone would play so much only to abuse everything he can abuse without even caring for some competition ? What the fuck is the endgame ? It baffles me... Are we sure Zimer is one player ?
TJ7, maybe you don't know but I'll tell you. Virtual console scores were allowed to submit in original games and that happened during many years but around in 2021 (if I'm not wrong), that was reverted and eventually put me in troubles. I'm completly sure that many users did that, but I'd never accuse them.
[Zimer], I am not against the use of virtual console per se. But you have to understand there is a difference between using it to access a long lost game for some fun and abusing a non-originally predicted system to break a highscore. If you were honest with ourselves and even with yourself, you would provide us a list of all the games you'd have played on virtual console over the years. But you let us search one by one all your scores while having to maintain this website. Slowing VGR's progression and the fair competition of our playerbase.
As a matter of fact, you even slow down yourself since we cannot work on adding new games as we are busy determining what you did and didn't.
Note that the extra-delay I gave to Zimer to make video proofs for 5 records in the game In the Groove is now over.
Zimer don't own this game anymore, nor eventual videos.
He sent me videos from another rythm game, Dance Dance Revolution Hottest Party 2.
OK, why not, but:
- this is not what was asked
- he can choose what he prefered, or succeed
- this game doesn't exist on VGR (when there is 15 others in VGR)
- I don't see neither moves or pushed buttons, as asked
- I don't see a specific tag or signature, as asked
- it concerned songs where there was between 252 and 313 combos, when I notably required one song with 612 in Double Mode.
He finally made one song with 764 combos, with full combos, but where 519 are “Marvelous” type (so around 68%). I suppose that 519 Marvelous + 145 Perfect songs = 764 full combos.
He also said me that for In the Groove, there was sometimes around 200 people who can make a tied 100% perfect score with him, because his records are "so easy" to do...
But concerning VGR, 99% of Zimer's scores are for platinum, and against 2 players which have more scores on Expert or Difficult modes.
Maybe Zimer just sent 100% scores he really made, with his particular strategy (and hoping 1st places only), and maybe all the others have a really lower level.
In this case, I can’t make a real judgement without at least more details from the accuser (Triple HHH), from Zimer (with certified game videos), or also from maybe TigrN (3rd place in the game).
At least, Zimer sent pictures (contrary to Javier95, 2nd place in this game) with his tag “ZIM”, and tried to send new videos of his skills, even in other games.
So, for the moment, even suspicious, his In the Groove scores will be maintained.
Any comments and help are welcome here.
Since I'm an In The Groove player, zephyraz encouraged me to contribute to this topic.
Back in 2010 I created a topic to point out that Zimer's picture proofs did not come from the official ITG game but from an open-source clone called OpenITG. The topic can still be accessed here (though most of it is written in French): https://www.video-games-records.com/en/archives-forum-f31/zimer-sur-in-the-groove-topic-t2271/index#
OpenITG contains the same songs as ITG, but the design of the menus is different. Zimer's pictures clearly show the OpenITG design, which is different from the official ITG game (as shown in my proofs for example, or the ones of the other ITG players on Cyberscore).
My view was and still is that VGR should not mix these two games together, even though other ITG scoring websites such as groovestats.com chose to do so (https://groovestats.com/?page=songscores&gameid=1). The main reason is that since OpenITG is open-source, it is very easy to go into the game files and change the Judge Difficulty setting to make it easier to obtain Marvelous hits and get a 100% score (just change the parameter JudgeWindowSecondsMarvelous in the file metrics.ini to any value of your choice; the default value is 21.5ms, or 1.3 frame). On top of that, the default Judge Difficulty settings are not the same between ITG and OpenITG (the latter uses the Stepmania default settings).
I'm not claiming that Zimer fudged the Judge Window on his game (I have no proof of that), what I say is that I am still 100% sure that his pictures are not coming from the official ITG game, and that as such they should not be accepted as valid proofs in the ITG charts. I am very happy to believe that Zimer is very good at rhythm games (after all he grabbed many Master Badges from Lucario on Dance Dance Revolution games) and he is very welcome to contribute his best scores in the ITG charts, provided he plays the official ITG PC (or PS2) game (and a few video proofs wouldn't hurt).
Thanks a lot for this detailed answer, that's what I expected for cases like this.
But rather that I wrote you, I prefered that people read again this topic, and take themselves the initiative to write here, there is still informations missing on other games...
Also, hopefully there was a topic in Archives which was not deleted, it was useful (even without functional links) !
Zimer played an open-source game, with different design and moreover options (Judge Difficulty settings), compared with the original one.
A more permissive difficulty can then explain all these 100% scores, suspected by TripleHHH.
There is also no videos from Zimer about at least one song.
I don't think that open-sources games can be accepted on VGR, notably because it can contains differences like here. We can debate aboute this later.
Remember that Zimer also played non-official version for Cosmic Bug (called Cosmo Bots).
One more time, he don’t understand that on VGR you need to play with equal conditions or versions to be sure that you can make fair comparisons and rankings.
So, now it will be simple: all the scores+proofs showing the Open-In The Groove game will be deleted.
Game Rules will be created: "You must play the In the Groove official version, and not the open-source one. Proofs are strongly suggested."
EDIT: DONE
I just made screenshots for the songs Delirium, Vertex2 and Little Kitty Mine, from the song list menu in the official game. This is how it looks:
There are only two official ITG themes: the blue one (the default one on PC and PS2) and the red one (optional 2nd theme after installing the DLC on PC). Soon after releasing the DLC, RoXoR went bankrupt and fans started to develop open-source clones (based on Stepmania) to keep playing these songs and add new ones. The photos shared by Zimer come from these non-official modified fan games.
Note that Zimer sent 7 proofs after his ban, which should not be theorically possible, moreover when it concerns games where he was considered as a cheater.
Last proof he sent was 16th October 2022.
Due to this, due to his special case (as a past cheater, multiple games accusations, multiplayer use, wrong game version, multiple savestates uses with no remorses for a fair competition), and also due to the long time it requires to clean his profile, his ban has been "increased" and will be extended, 4 months after his last action.
Now he can just be active on Discord, but not on VGR.
So, his ban will now finish in 16th February 2023.
As written above (in July...), I need comments from Djon (notably, but others are welcome), in order to take a decision concerning the game Mario Strikers Charged Football (Wii):
Can we delete some records (Domination Mode) there, as suggested by Zimer ?
For reminder, the Gamecube version has been deleted.
9) Super Mario Strikers :
Zimer said he used multiplayer here.
Same kind of problem than for Mario Strikers Charged Football, it needs more investigations.
Can people proove by video here ?
Yes you can use multiplayers option at the start of each match during the cup and I think even during the match there is an option to just add a controller. It's against the rule though.
For more than 10 years, he's been bullying the competition unfairly on VGR, we should ban him completely off.