scoom_scoom

Hello to all,

While checking the proofs, daftpunk and I noticed that user scoom_scoom uses a PS2 emulator on the game  Burnout 3. : Takedown

Indeed, if I take example of two of the videos he posted on YouTube and VGR, we can notice that above and below the video there is enough information to prove it:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QY6AwvAlZzn-GJVONMMaQbPAHd37ORo9/view?usp=sharing

I would like to remind everyone who will read this that only official emulators are allowed on VGR.

2.2 Prohibited practices

All of the following are prohibited:

• Cheat codes;
• Action Replay or equivalent system;
• Unofficial emulated games (emulated games: replicated game on a platform it had not been developed for). Official emulation (on Virtual Console [Wii] and Nintendo eShop [Wii U, 3DS]) is authorized, as well as games on console allowing backward compatibility games;
• Continues (continuing a level after a Game Over screen) if they don't reset or lower your score;
• Unofficial patches, mods or other game elements;
• Modifying a game, a controller (pad), a console or a game accessory in order to improve scores or facilitate their realization;
• In a general way, any practice which isn't integrated in the original game or which makes competition between players unfair.

Links of YouTube videos where you can see the informations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1PPY0IEsUQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_pv_v9m7AY

I obviously refused all his proofs and sent him a private message explaining the situation.

I contacted scoom_scoom and invited him to answer here in a 15 days period from now.

Hi there,

Sorry that I didn't notice the messages in my inbox sooner, I am used to colorful notifications, so I actually didn't see the messages icon on the website until now.

It would be helpful if you explained why my proof was refused in the messages, rather than just "Your proof on the score Burnout 3: Takedown - Fastest Laps - <Track name> was refused.". I noticed that you explained a bit better in the more recent messages, which was helpful.

As for use of an emulator, I don't understand why you ban some of them. They are allowed on speedrun.com, and my personal view is that if the game is running on an emulator with no significant advantages over console, then it should be fine. In the first video link provided (<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1PPY0IEsUQ>), the top of the window shows the PCSX2 emulator speed always staying very close to 100%. If the emulator strayed a lot from 100%, this could be justification for invalidating the run. As for the widescreen patch, I did not realize that I was using it, so that was an accident. The second video (<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_pv_v9m7A>) is fuzzy because of youtube compression, I think, so it is hard to see that the emulator is running at full speed.

I switched to console a few months ago due to my computer not running emulator well anymore. I am going to submit a console video proof for my recent Island Paradise Southbound time, and I would appreciate it if you give me details in the case that the proof is rejected.

I hope you understand my comment. Thanks.

Also, I forgot to add, it would be useful if there were these features on this website:

• A button to remove submitted scores.
• A way to view people's rejected proofs, in case people are curious to see it.

Just a few ideas. Maybe these could be added to this website in the future.

Hi scoom_scoom.

Thanks for your message and the explanations.

I did refused your proofs without sending message because I sent you a Private Message about the case. I'm sorry, I should've explained also on the proof !

For the features you asked, there will never be any buttons about removing submitted scores because It'll break the competition. For some reasons, it can be removed. 

For the second feature you suggested, that's not a bad idea ^^'

Have a nice day =)

Hello scoom scoom,

Thanks a lot for your detailed and quick answer.
Because you are a newcomer on VGR, we can be tolerant with you in some points.

1) The message icon is useful when you receive a new one (private or for your proofs management), please look at it with more attention in the next future, no problem.

2) The proof refusal message is generated automatically, but the proof admin. who refused it should theorically have explained why, sorry for the inconvenience.

3) For reminder, emulation is not allowed in VGR since the beginning of the site in 2003, this is written in the Rules (that everybody should read when you subscribed).
This has been treated in the past with many debates, so I invite you to write “emulation” or “emulator” in the search toolbar, and read all the topics about it, it will avoid us many repetitions and time losses.
Even recently with v7 arrival in 2021, we discussed again about this, and the conclusion was the same.
Quickly and basically (and one more time …), you can’t rely on things that are not equal or fair for everybody, or with things which have too many ways to change settings.
Even if there can be some emulators with same conditions than original games, there is so many others with subtle differences that we can not really trust on these “trustworthy” ones.
So, if I was you, I will be really more dubitative on records made in other site(s) where this point is not considered, or worse, ignored.
And especially in racing games, or where there is time records.
Honestly, it is also a problem of time for us, and we are not enough volunteers to deal these problems and differences.

4) So, because you obviously used an emulator, we will be obliged to apply the appropriate sanction.
Then, sorry but you will be banned for a 4 months period, so until the 16/06/2022.
During this period, it means you can’t send any scores, but you can still log in and write messages.
The 2 concerned records (1’08’’44 for Silver Lake Northbound and 1’03’’90 for Dockside Southbound) have been deleted.
 

5) You can prepare videos with original console, if you want (it’s always better).
Note that with last 2 years debates, a new feature for prooving the console/system you used will be developed, this year I hope.
I invite you to proove your records with more attention in the future, and with more details (so, system proofs here will be better).
Remind that because you used emulator, people can be more dubitative with you in the future. 

 

I hope this 4 months period of ban will allow you to come back with better intentions, and that you will be more vigilant with details and Rules in the future.
Thanks for understanding.

Hi guys!

I just want to interject my opinion, not because both my platinum medals were taken (and I didn't even know), but because I don't like emulation.

Now I get it, over time, consoles become rare, technology and game consoles break down and it's harder to get the original consoles since they are so expensive nowadays/out of circulation.

For me, I have a PS2 slim, ones that they sold back then (idk I didn't like the big and bulky PS2s). It still works, and I encourage you to try and get one too. If not, abiding by the rules of emulation for this site is important, since it adheres to the honor code. An honor code that makes all records fair and square, and that the person with the most skill holds those records. Time records are about reactions in the moment, one continuous gameplay with no pausing excessively (ahem), but VGR doesn't do that, and you are welcome to pause buffer to your heart's content.

The point is, I can't wait for you to come back, because now I am going to start playing this game more when my Spring term at the university is over. Trust me, I will be pushing ALL my times down. Best of luck ;)

-MWT 2.0

Hi all,

Thanks for the detailed explanation of the situation zephyraz. Detail always helps understand the situation. I think that it's fair that I have received a ban, seeing as the rules state that runs without official emulation are not allowed, but I think 4 months is a bit excessive. I personally think 1 month would be a sufficient amount of time, but I don't mind a 4 month ban as I don't use this site a whole lot.

To MWT 2.0, I look forward to having more competition in Burnout 3! Also, I did actually buy a proper ps2 later on in my speed running journey, because my emulator was slowing down.

Thanks, scoom_scoom

Hey guys I'm a bit shocked about that what I read. First scoom as a possible cheater? Well he is a trustful member of the B3 community and its true other site other rules. His runs are not cheated and we talked a lot about strats, I learned many things from him. He did not knew about that rule and he was teached about that. He got no advantage from that. It's understandable that his times are removed but I can't understand the ban for 4 months sorry. This was not intentional and he knows now what to do. I think the ban should be removed and we can have a 3 way battle with Scoom, MWT and myself for the B3 fast lap title 😉 

I hope you guys understood what I wanted to say, I don't want to offend anyone,  just wanted to say what's in my head here:)

Greetings BWG

End of ban for scoom_scoom.
So you can send again scores from now.
So, now, don't use emulator anymore in VGR, or there will be a new ban (level 2: 1 year).

Great to hear! Lets gooooo!