First Place Platin Medal System

A funny fact : When packattack has left VGR, he had 0 platinium. But i'm sure, he has now a pretty same number of gold since this moment and that will never change with a proof system or 3 players to get a platinium

do you realy \"punishing\" a guy if he dont care about? You realy think after \"deleting some of the no prooven scores brings them back after month and then he say: whats going on here, where all my scores?\"

Thats 1 point i dont get it. Is it realy the guy where own the score are later \"pissed\" after deleting score or the rest of active ppl there knowing this guy? I think you guys look way to harm on \"good\" scores what you actually not see (because theres no proof) its like you try to see the Sun but the Window locked with a black Wall behind.

Whats with this idea: ask this guys via PM/Face Book (i dont use FB) or on other way what they think about the scores atm. I think its more interessting what this guys would say after month not looking what happen with the scores.

thelegendarypsr :

That might be because the majority of players here play games for fun, and records are something you happen to get as a secondary purpose. yes, I can never be bothered to prove the majority of my records, but I can do if I wanted to. But I play for fun, because playing for records for this site almost killed my enjoyment of games altogether.

+1, well said!
As I said a lot of times before, there are some site which ask for proofs for every scores, and then there is VGR. Let every site have their mentality. I don't post on the site where every records must be proven, and a lot of players there won't post on VGR because they want to compete against people who proove their scores. It's all ok like that.

Thanks Zimer for doing the exercise. Seing the result, I want even more to stay just the way it is.
With the top 100 proof and the new gift for VGR point system that will come in the future, it's enough to incite player to prove...
Like I said before, a top 100 proof for team would help.

TRINDEL :

Like I said before, a top 100 proof for team would help.

Maybe based off of percentage of scores proven on the team instead of just total records proven, so smaller teams will have motivation to be at the top of one of the charts.

There will probably have to be a minimum requirement so someone doesn't just post one score and prove it to get the title, but there's probably a formula that can be worked out that can reward for something other than just quantity.

First off, nice work Zimer on compiling that list. However, that list proves why the system shouldn't be implemented as the medal rankings would be taken even less seriously. The best players on the site(packattack, tails, yicestmoi, blackshark, and I mean no disrespect to flo on this, as I do rate him highly) will be miles down the rankings. You're right, The difference between this system and the current system is enormous, in fact, \"ridiculous\" would sum it up.

Right now, the system is fine as it is. For people who take medal rankings seriously, they probably don't think packattack deserves to be last, naruto and tails in mid table, the top 2 don't deserve to be top, I wouldn't deserve to be as high as 6th(which is where I would end up when I prove my records)

And the last problem is simply that the ranking will never be accurate. As you know Zimer, it's taking weeks for some proofs to be accepted. And that is the case every day. And that will directly affect the rankings of the site. A ranking should be up to date all the time, not skewed because someone hasn't accepted a bunch of proofs.

I am totally against this idea, despite the arguments Undead put forwards, but I won't leave and come back later over it.

Constant changing how the rankings work(especially considering all but 3 or 4 users don't want a change) is a bad idea for the players and site's reputation.

To remember, this topic is not about the proof idea but a third member to get the medal

But for me, it's too late to add the proof option.

thewebinator :

TRINDEL :

Like I said before, a top 100 proof for team would help.

Maybe based off of percentage of scores proven on the team instead of just total records proven, so smaller teams will have motivation to be at the top of one of the charts.

There will probably have to be a minimum requirement so someone doesn't just post one score and prove it to get the title, but there's probably a formula that can be worked out that can reward for something other than just quantity.

Number of score X % of proofs of the team maybe

Djon :

To remember, this topic is not about the proof idea but a third member to get the medal

But for me, it's too late to add the proof option.

Trust me, I know

all what i see on Zimers list is: quality of prooven scores

But i see now why ppl dont like the idea: you will lose many places for laziness of uploading proofs...

Sure if im 1 of the guy who never uploaded proofs for my scores, then i would be against such a system too, but its still the best idea to see if a score is true or not. (and if im new on the site, i would see it more seriously and can trust that this score is true, because i see on start the best score in a Game is not just random posted)

Maybe i know why ppl dont ask for first place platin medal scores with many scores posted: maybe they are to scary to ask for a proof.

@Undead: You say that people who doesn't prove are lazy... That's an innapropriate assomption. It's like if I said that people who prove everything must have a boring life spending time proving instead of playing.
Some like to prove, and some don't,... that's all.
I don't like to prove and I said somewhere that it would be an acceptable option if a medal would become platinium once proven. But then again, the platinium medal ranking wouldn't mean anything to me anymore. With a full time job, two kids and so few time to play, I don't want to lose time taking picture. That's why I post on VGR or Cyberscore before, and not wii-records or other.

TRINDEL :

... It's like if I said that people who prove everything must have a boring life spending time proving instead of playing. ...

What in your opinion is more time wasting? trying to beat a good score/time record over days/weeks or proof it later in 5 min?

If you want to force me to ask for proofs, then i will do it for every none prooven platin score.

If you want, i can use the site rules for it. If i ask for proof, then i don't do something forbidden, but if the Mods/admins think i cant ask for proofs anymore(for all kind of different highscoregamer here, not only you, packattack or someone else) then remove the proof system of the site, because noone want/need it if i read this here...

wii records asks to proof every score you send, we talk here about platin medals only. Why you send scores, whats the reason? I dont think just for fun, you want to show someone what you are reached in a Game or not? If you beat a good score, you want that everyone can see you are on the Top. If you do Highscores only for you, then theres no reason to post it on a Online Highscore site right?
Like: \"hey i beat the game and made a highscore im so happy with myself\" if you never post own scores on a site.

But its more like: \"hey i beat the game and made a highscore, im so happy to show you guys what i did\" how? with just the Number on the Scoreboard?

some guys will never undertstand whats the point of posting scores.

Dont get me wrong, i dont post this here just to make you angry, but it makes me angry if i must read that i had maybe a \"boring life\" spending time to proof scores, so ppl have something real to see and not must thinking \"im not sure this score is true, but i trust him\"

TRINDEL :

... With a full time job, two kids and so few time to play ...

But why you then play Games for Highscores? I know MANY Gamers from Game Collector Forums they say the same thing you do: \"if i would play Games for Highscore too, then i would never have time to have fun playing a Game\". Thats why noone play Highscores because of this. If you dont have time to play for fun, why you have time to play and post for Highscores? A good Highscire is still work, like training your skills of doing the same thing all over again, so pls dont use this argument.

Wii-Records has epic fakes records so ... (Ex: Mario Kart Double Dash!)
& Some games with nobody &mh

I think always that's too late...

About proofs seriously it's not taking so much time if you take a picture just after do the Highscore which you had working for 1-2 hours certainly.. it's just 10 secondes more.

But okay now if you already post without proof it's another story I admit but it's can be very quick. Especially with the new feature 'my proofs' on menu

@Undead: I didn't say you have no life, I said that saying that people who doesn't proove are lazy is LIKE saying that people that prove everything have no life. It's in no way my opinion.
And it's not because I don't have much time, that I can't like records breaking, right?

I stand by the following arguments as to why this should not be implemented:

1. If this was implemented in the beginning, it would be reasonably effective (although there's another reason below that will contradict this). Now, it will just create a mess. People have left already or just haven't been around for a while because life has taken priority. Does this mean that they no longer care about their scores here? Not necessarily.

2. I very much see the argument as to why this should be implemented, but I have three problems with this:

a. Sure, people will then \"care\" to prove their top scores, but should this system be made public, cheaters will then do their absolute best to hide below first place/blend in with 1st place ties. There will also be more pronounced fake proofs as well, I'm sure of that much.

b. The whole point of the current system is the position that a player is \"legitimate until proven otherwise\", which also is the point of the reporting system. It lies in the reporting player or players to provide a good enough reason to investigate a certain player's record or records, which doesn't change with the new system. Is there some bias towards certain players? Perhaps, yes. But that is because we are human, have different experiences, and have different ideas and opinions of certain players, which I'm afraid also doesn't change.

c. The \"goal\" of all proven top scores will never be achieved. Will it make a dent in the number of unproven scores? perhaps. But it won't solve the supposed problem. Once it starts, it will go to the path of \"prove all your scores or else this happens\" sort of thing, which, even with this system that doesn't technically force people to prove their (1st place) scores, carries a message of a lack of trust in the players, especially since there are other sites that don't necessarily do this (and others that do more than that, yes - but notice that these sites don't see as many users...there is a good reason for this).

3. Applying this retroactively will not be received well by a fair number of people on this site - it requires quite a bit of strat re-learning in most cases, and that can take quite a bit of time. It won't be simply \"oh, just take a picture from your saved file\". People instead might leave the site because that level of trust is now broken (I'm sure you'll argue that these are the cheaters, etc., etc, but this very much can have the same effect on legit players), or just plain not care about plats anymore and compete for golds instead, while in reality, all the medal table will say is who cared enough to prove x number of 1st place records.

4. As for ties, those are not plats now, and those cannot be plats under the new system. Even if only one player has proven his/her tie.

In all, as far as I can see, the \"problem\" here is that there are many people that lead charts that don't prove their records. There are a number of reasons as to why this is the case: the person doesn't want to share a strat (for whatever reason - the player has the right to do this unless a site moderator/admin requests it), proven already on other site(s), charts with records that only last a few seconds to prove, which sometimes isn't the first thing people think of, especially in games where records are not saved...

The solution being proposed here is to award provers plats and non-provers just golds. This middle ground solution really doesn't fully solve the problem. A shift to all proofs would make around 1/3rd or so leave the site entirely.

tl;dr This is the system that VGR was founded upon; changing it now would do far more harm than expected good.

(I know this isn't the real issue being argued anymore, but this is so there is a definitive stance)

As for the other issue mentioned in this topic, I will support a shift to 3 players for a plat if enough people feel it necessary.

I hate to have to keep bringing this up, but it seems necessary because it is very important - THE RANKINGS WILL NEVER BE ACCURATE - With every proof uploaded, it can take weeks to get it accepted. Right now, we have a platinum system that is 100% accurate 100% of the time. Let's not start taking the site so seriously, not many WRs are posted here. I can name several games where Platinum holders aren't the top players in the world. In the end, this place is a score posting site, and it's supposed to be fun.

If we take an example, and Zimer will know exactly what I'm talking about here - You have a platinum score posted on Super Collapse 2 - here it is. That proof pic has yet to be accepted.  That was nearly 2 weeks ago. Are you seriously telling me that you want to take out a 100% accurate system for a system that takes weeks for a proof to be accepted?

Let's pick another example - I have 1005 platinums on THDJ, of which only a few are proven(although I can prove them all anytime I want, it's not an issue). On the new system(again, kudos for putting the work in to come up with a list), I would go up 9 places on the rankings if I prove them scores. However, with it being nearly 1000 proofs, it would take weeks, maybe a month for that to happen. On a primary ranking, that would not be acceptable to me, or anyone.

**This is not a criticism of any of the proof admins

I understand Undead's reasons for wanting to implement the system, but there is a reason why I point out constantly that the rankings will never be accurate - because every day that point gets proven, and every day another example shows up that proves it

I didn't read every arguments that each part gave but from what I can tell this won't be implemented because niconoe and myself are against this idea (maybe Arcade and Bart think the same way).
When I'll dispose of the time I'll argue with you but this is against the idea we have of records even though it can give more value to platinum.

Zimer. :

Any notification?
With this is to give platinum medals more value.

I love that, when someone  in and disagrees with you, instead of getting into a discussion about it, you choose to completely deny that post's existence. I've explained to you several times that this so called "more value" idea is a bad idea, I even used your own records and proof to PROVE to you why it's a bad idea, and yet, simply because I disagree with you, you refuse to acknowledge that point(a point that NO ONE ELSE has disagreed with) You're being extremely ignorant.

And, for what it's worth, I'll say I agree with Hypersonic about everything. His post pretty much sums up my thoughts on the topic

Besides, if lazyness from the staff and common sense are joining forces, what else could be said about it ?