Zimer

Sorry, but please note that I will delay again my decision concerning this case to November.
Due to many details to study in this case, and my general availability for VGR and its other priorities...
In the meantime, any supplementary information or collaboration from Zimer would be appreciated.

This is really starting to tire me... and I'm really getting impatient on theZimer's dubious scores posted on VGR (not all scores fortunately) So here's a good example, with a strong argument that makes me doubt again and again.

Bust A Move DS.

Proof :

I spent a lot of time on this single level, and to succeed below 3 min is really complicated but realizedble, and I estimate I can reach 2:45.
We're still quite far from 2:20, don't you think? So I decided to use Hacking to test and there I took out a time of 2:26 of the first try !! (which I didn't post)
Hack method used, the game Bust a Move DS is a DS game (normal or obvious for some) but this famous time how could it be realized (and not only this one by the way)
Hacking the console (Zimer uses a 3DS) and then to run the game DS on 3DS, using a Linker. Then with manipulations in the database, encoding Save/State premmeting to make a perfect time on the 10 levels immediately (elimination of randomness or RNG) and maximum optimization of the achievable time.

I personally invested money in a 3DS and Linkers and computer hardware to hack and I did the test personally. (Zephyraz was the first to know about my research and I didn't post any scores on VGR) I have the right to do research/experiments as long as I do not post his famous illegal scores!

Needless to say that Save/States does not exist on 3DS, I managed to create some so well, I know very well what I am talking about.

Then your Nintendo Switch? You post scores in 8 languages it seems to me... while I kindly asked you to show it to me in a picture with your name on it next to your PC screen. (Or it's Ruyjinx ?? or the other) The creators of Citra it speaks to you right?

Think what you want of me, but I respect the VGR community. Do not trust me, banish me even if you wish, but if nothing happens at all... So my days of presence on VGR will be numbered, I will finish the work I started even if it means not posting at all and maybe continue to work in the additions because I have always wanted to work on the internet and in video games, so thank you to the community of me see allowed to do this.

Djon and Zephyraz received your request which doesn't have sense.

The unique thing that you provoked TripleHHH is that the questionated score for Bust a move DS level 1-B get passed from 2:20 to 2:12. I won't post new score yet.

My request doesn't make sense?? I'm not as sure as you, Nintendo 3DS + Linker + Game DS = Save/State. So I think my suspicion is justified. But if you insist, I don't understand why you would be the only one doing this. Make me a video of the full run since you go under 2:20 so easily.

I continue to study the Zimer's case, don't worry. I'm actually writing my answer since last month.
But due to all details to check and cases where Zimer is accused, it takes me a lot of time.
I will check this other accusation for Bust a Move, at the end.

Like before and always, all other comments and details are welcome in this topic to help me for judging this (difficult and special) case.

Now I have enough details and elements to judge this case.
For the moment, note that I wrote 6 pages of answer.

But I did not finished enterely all the required stuffs assiociated to it, so sorry, but I will report again this to January.

Don't worry, I still continue to study this huge and special case, step by step.
I add elements and precisions I found, but this requires an exceptional time to study, there is many places where there is doubts on Zimer's scores... 🤔
Fore sure, there will be a decision, you can count on me, I don't forget this case.

As you can read again above, there was accusations on Zimer's score on Super Star Wars, the 09th June 2021, by GTi.

Today Zimer complained about the time that his picture proof is waiting, since 28th March 2022 actually.
So now, let's talk about this accusation n°8 again:

8) Super Star Wars (SNES/Wii):

Game link

Edit 24/05/22: The video proof sent in June 2021 has not been checked since, was briefly replaced by a picture many months after, and is now (24/05/22) back.
Now here was the picture:

Fortunately, I watched the video when it was possible (YouTube deleted the older account of Zimer, and all his videos inside), and everybody can watch it again now (24/05/22 edit).

This video is the right example where Zimer found a weakness in the game for giving him infinite life, and you can come back to take it when necessary. Then, few or basic skills are required, and you can make almost infinite score. 

I have many other examples in mind where this weaknesses/glitches happens.

So, no problem with the technique or glitch used here.

BUT, when you see how many points are given during this (2300 points in 1min35s), then it represents around 232h of play. And in this video, you have a double point bonus inside, so maybe it can represent more hours of play.
This time means a lot for hard gamers nowadays (when you overcome 200h of play with “big” open world/adventure games).

I don’t know this game, and if there can be bonuses round or whatever.
Anyway, there is clearly here another problem of version played here.
The difference made by Zimer here with the 5 other people is speaking.
One more time (you need to wait for my other answers in this topic for the moment, sorry about the situation), because Zimer used Wii Vitual Console with pause-savestate here, it’s clearly more easy than to play continuously (or let the system switched on) for more than 200h.

So this creates obviously inequal situations, you can’t make rankings or direct and fair comparison for that.🤔
It was a bad decision made in the past to group these different versions together, or maybe to accept to add Wii without asking details about the gameplay possibilities offers with these "new" Virtual Console games. 

So, this is not a cheat, but we can’t accept to maintain SNES and Wii versions grouped more longer, we should split them !

Now I will ask for this, it's finally time to do it, after almost 1 year of investigations...😓
Note that my answers concerning other Zimer's accusations will follow, don't worry, but I still need time to put more details into it, and depending on what is written in this topic since.

Hi there

So I've been asked to check this topic and give an opinion.

First I have to say Zimer in my opinion has been a running joke on this site as he's been accused of cheating mutiple time, he's been banned even if I remember correctly and while I agree that anyone has a right to redemption, I think Zimer's case is hopeless.

Now that I gave my preliminary opinion, let's check what has been said:
On page one we have the proof that Zimer post impossible records, records done with 2 players mode, level select so cheats unless it's an option given to the player, image proof with crucial info cut (even if it was no crucial info, proof modification is forbiden).
I won't comment on the VC part as it's authorised on VGR unless he's played a game not officialy released on VC (but there's no proof of that).
VC games should stay on VGR but separated from the original games imo.

I think that alone should be enough for at the very least delete every record posted, but let's continue to page 2:
More impossible score (damn if you want to cheat at the very least check if the score is possible, it's kinda insulting)
About Cosmo-bot, if versions have differences they should not be grouped. I don't even know why that's a debat. In fact HHH said it "Yes, of course and i understand that. But VGR must know if the game must be Mixed or Splitted ;)" .
More multiplayer... Really Zimer?!

Should I go on?
let's read page 3:

Ok first let's talk about MSDOS and DOSBOX because I think there's a bit of misunderstanding as to what's allowed and what's not.
On VGR we only have one platform PC wich group games over a period of 40+ years. Even worse: there's multiple hardware and software differences. A PC unlike any console is not standardised, even if you have the same software running a game with 2 different graphic cards can have 2 different results.
same with the software, there's different OS that have different features. There's even different MSDOS versions.
Nowadays every DOS rerelease use a version of DOSBOX and even though emulator are forbidden on VGR, I think PC emulation on PC should be an authorised exception as there's not a lot of different options and the hardware/software is different on each machine anyway.

I also want to talk about max scores. I've done some max score before on sonic 1 on Sonic Mega Collection + with the built in save states and even though it was fast compared to what zimer has sent, it was incredibly tedious and I did it over multiple days. From what I see on VGR, on original hardware I've stopped at 2M because I was bored and didn't want to leave my console on for days.
You're maybe patient, maybe you've spent 20H playing prehistoric man but I got spoiled by page 4 and the Star Wars score so I know it's either false or you let your console on an incredible amount of time.
Of course that proves nothing, maybe you are indeed patient and don't care about your hardware being on for days but... I mean come on I don't need a rocket engineering degree to understand that you're playing on an hacked wii and you use savestates.
Yeah I said it, hacked Wii, sure Super Star Wars was released on Wii VC but Prehistoric Man was never released on it.
As Zephyraz said, at the very least VGR should separate platform with built in saves states and platform that have none.

As for Zimer, if you're banned or if you're not, to me you've destroyed all your credibility a long time ago you'll stay the running joke of this site. I could swear each time I visit this site I see your name here.

Sorry if I spend an exceptional time to check this case, but it was containing lot of accusations, it is a special case too, and it is important to bring a detailed answer.

Nevertheless, for things which can’t be done today, I will report some changes (like for Game Rules or score deletions) later, in September 2022 I think.

First, I remind you all that Zimer was already banned in the past, for use of a modded Wii system, which is not allowed here.
He returned to VGR with magicbart permission (only), on February 10^th, 2018.
Then he was obliged to proove every new score he posted on VGR.
You can read the concerned topic "The return" (link here).

Concerning accusations :

1)  Multiplayer use in Wii Party – Poppin Pilots: 

Even if the specific rules were not edited before this case, Zimer used multiplayer, showed by the Mii partner used (top right avatar face), which is not a standard Mii controlled by the IA of the game. Zimer requested the score deletion, which is for sure not appropriate when you don’t tell immediately the reason why (multiplayer). Zimer changed this after, playing with normal conditions (score+proof 03/09/2021), and never apologized.
DONE

2) Multiplayer use in Mario Strikers Charged Football (Wii):

Work in progress, sorry .
Can we delete some records (Domination Mode) there, as suggested by Zimer ?

Zimer just followed what other members made more than 10 years ago, without signaling the problem.
The Gamecube version has been deleted.
I need more investigations on this. Djon comments are welcome, notably.

3) Multiplayer use in Raiden II : 

As reported by GTi, there was already a discussion on it elsewhere (Highscore.com), for a 8 M score that was already huge at the time (2014):

“PC version of Raiden II allows your points to carry over when you continue & it gives you 8 continues.

You can also start a 1-player game, then join in with player 2 & you now have 16 credits, letting 2nd player die allows 1st player to use them all.

Also with 2 players there are twice as many power-ups.”

Concerning Continues, the game gives this opportunity by default, but important here: “it's only if 2-player mode has been activated does the score carry over after continues”. 

In some other games/cases it could be authorized (because developper’s choice), but here finally not.

Because as GTi described, you can proove with a picture that you didn’t used Continues.

Then, even this can be considered as restrictive, it is not too much, and I think it is the best compromise here. 

Now, Rules should be applied in this game:

“Please check general Rules.

• Multiplayer forbidden: if you proove with picture, then it must show “Push Start” written below the 2^nd controller (2UP) score.
• Continues not allowed: if you proove with picture, then it must show the “Settings Info.” window”
  
   

The picture sent by Zimer don’t show the written “Push Start” mentioned below the 2^nd controller score (2UP), which alternately appears.
Zimer said that a video was recorded, but never sent the link of it in this topic, it was made by Djon (thanks).

Concerning what is shown in this (3 parts) video:

The 1^st part don’t show clearly the full screen, so Top score is not well visible. Hopefully, after 1’56” it’s over 50000 so the high score is copied in the top center, and a little bit more visible.

Zimer’s video shows almost a continuing run between its 3 parts (only link between part 1 and 2 is not exactly precise), we can consider this like acceptable. 
At the end, he made a score of 3 850 590, 8 levels completed, in a period of around 32 minutes.

It represents what is possible, just before the game is looping and start again in level 1.
In videos founded on YouTube, people made some loops of the game (after level 8 end, you start again from level 1).

Note that the final bonus increase like this: 1 million points bonus after 8 level completed (loop 1), then 2 M bonus after loop 2, 3 M bonus after loop 3, …
Usually, gamers are able to survive to 3 or 4 loops before dying. 

In 2014, Zimer said he made a 3 loops run and had a final score of 8 M. 

This score was also suspicious at the time, because he did not prove with his picture that 2^nd controller was not used (no “Push start” visible on it).

So, considering Zimer and other players comments, the VGR score of 46119810 is very probably made with multiplayer use.

Zimer's score will be deleted. New Games Rules will be applied.

Update: DONE, 17/08/2022

4) Wonderboy score (1 059 940):

GTi said Zimer beats the record (610 500) of another site (Twin Galaxies), almost than more than 500 000 points.
By checking this site, you can now see that a better record of 722 500 was made, but with Wii Virtual Console.

Anyway, there is a possibility of trick in this game, the Level select + repetition of selected levels.

Because this trick is intregrated in the game by developers, and everybody can use it, this is not considered as a cheat. 
VGR follows what developers made, unless the majority of players of this game are against this and prefer a more restrictive rule (then full run video proof only). 

As GTi reported, in Zimer’s picture, you don’t see a real hardware (Master System).
This is more annoying now, due to Zimer’s comments made last 30^th August, where he said he played all the 90’s games with Virtual Console (VC).
Wii VC is not grouped with Master System for this game.

Again, this is not considered as a cheat, but this is potentially one, since we know that Wii VC offers a different gameplay, where the “pause-savestate” feature can easily be used.

Then, it probably needs to make a split, but this is another debate (to follow).
So at least, the Zimer’s case made a focus on this problem, because he clearly don’t play with same equal conditions for all the concerned games.

This is a big problem for the site legitimacy, and it’s really annoying to not have mentioned it before, more than 10 years ago actually (and then, like Zimer hided).

Update (30/09/2022): Wonder Boy (Wii) created.
Update (29/03/2023): Zimer's score (and PMniac too, played on Wii VC too, confirmed by him the 20/08/2022) have been moved on the right place (Wonder Boy, Wii version).
DONE.

5) Ghost’n Goblins (score 1 575 800)

Same than 4), potential cheat due to Wii VC “pause-savestate” abuse.
In my opinion, this game is a good symbol of how Zimer use the game possibilities.

Because it is well known as the Top 20 most difficult and vicious games ever.

Like GTi, because of absence of (full run) video here, I personally doubt if Zimer is able to finish this game (and redo it a second time, like the game allows) in a single run, which such a score. A score of 200 000 would be more credible.
So I supposed he used “pause-savestate” a lot here.

With more than 1 500 000, sorry but it’s too big to be truly believed.

 

For GTi remarks, note that Proof Admins can’t check every score history on VGR, or all the VGR topics, all the time.

Only existing alarms with lost medals can inform the 3 top scorers (max).
If nobody reacts and communicate about that in the forum, then it’s probably not seen by admins.
Maybe your remarks were made in the wrong topic, like Game topic, where it first concerns game members, and where some admins don’t necessary read it.

Again, Zimer did not played the genuine system: this was a past error of VGR, we now know why.

 

6) Galaga (max score 999 990)

According to different websites, there is tricks and special settings to make enemies stop firing, so probably that Zimer used them. I’m surprised he told that there is no tricks here, because he told us he looked and learned a lot about the same site where I checked these informations (he “analyse allowed and not allowed things”).
Due to the game specificities (score with 6 numbers if you play only with player 1) and max score of 999 990, we can consider that a single picture (with the special symbol who appears after the rollover) is enough for this game.

I think there is no cheat here, because other people who (probably) used tricks (and player 2, just to show the full player 1 score) can go over 20 millions.  

Now, it also remain here the question about separation between NES original game and Wii VC game.

7) PC Engine games:

Zimer played these games on Wii VC, like probably other people (PMniac):

• Air Zonk (no Wii tag here)
  - Blazing Lazers (no Wii tag here, PMniac probably played Wii VC too :“Wii records.com” tag on his picture)
  - Bloody Wolf (no Wii tag here)
  - Castlevania: Rondo of Blood 
  - Devil’s Crush : look here because there is 4 people with proofs, but the 2 guys with proven NEC/PEC Engine LT/GT/TurboGraphX-16 systems made a really lower score that Zimer (Wii VC) or PMniac (Wii VC?) 
  - Double Dungeons: here, 2 people with proofs: Foxof played Wii (VC), but Zimer indicated he played PC-Engine (!), which doesn’t appear on his picture, similar to others.
  - Final Soldier (no Wii tag here, PMniac probably played Wii VC too)
  - Legend of Hero Tonma  (MathiewFelix played Wii VC too, with max score too)
  - New Adventure Island (no Wii tag here)
  - Ninja Spirit 
  - Salamander (no Wii tag here)
  - Samurai Ghost (MathiewFelix played Wii VC too, with max score too)
  - Soldier Blade (no Wii tag here)
  - Super Star Soldier (no Wii tag here)

So, for these 14 games, the question about separation is there again, due to gameplay differences and pause-savestate presence.
There is only 1 game (Ninja Spirit) or maybe 2 (if you add Double Dungeons) where Zimer creates a real difference with equal material.

Zimer sent scores in 8 games where he don’t possess the system, and where he probably didn’t care didn’t made investigations about the equal gameplay version. That’s a problem. 

8) Super Star Wars (SNES/Wii):

Already checked and problem solved, see upthere.

9)  Super Mario Strikers : 

Zimer said he used multiplayer here.

Same kind of problem than for Mario Strikers Charged Football, it needs more investigations.
Can people proove by video here ?

10) Mario Party games :

Can people proove by video here ?

11) Shrek Super Party :

“Opinions in this game are “divided” because Zimer fooled the game with one controller”: where ? Which opinions ?

I have not seen something written in the game forum before Zimer’s opinion, so you can’t say this.

Like Smoka explained, Zimer deliberately used multiplayer here, by selecting 4 character one by one, to make the best score. It is like multiplayer, or even worse, because other controllers are inactive. This is considered as a cheat.
Obviously, you can’t make a competition if there is 3 other inactive CPU characters, it has no sense.
If it was not explicit before, now I updated this Game rules.
There is now video proofs only for this game.

Zimer scores and proofs will be deleted.

Game rules will be modified: 
"Reminder: multiplayer use is forbidden, and especially, inactivation of other(s) controller(s).
For this reason, video proofs are now mandatory for this game".

12) In the Groove (PC)

Zimer made a huge amount of 100% scores there (around 1000), all are 100% only (I checked 47 pages of scores), and only 6 of them are tied. 
I saw Triple HHH link for another guy who made a 99,5% final score on an Expert song.

Zimer don’t have video examples of gameplay for this game on his YouTube account, and did not answered to Triple HHH doubts.
Then, I think it will be better for Zimer to proove at least some by video, to show his skills.

So, I choose 5 songs where he now needs to send videos:

• Single Mode - Novice/ Queen of Light
• Single Mode - Medium/ Kagami
• Single Mode - Hard/ Mythology
• Double Mode - Expert/ Queen of Light
• DLC Double Mode - Easy/ Psalm Pilot

Zimer have a delay of 1 month to do this, from now.
So until 22th August 2022.

EDIT 26/08: see additional elements downthere.
All the scores+proofs showing the Open-In The Groove game have been deleted.
Game Rules have been created. 

DONE
 

13) Savestates

The problem underlined by narutokyuby is huge, and central for Zimer’s case.
Since 30^th August 2021, we finally know that Zimer used a Wii Virtual Console, with internal savestates. Or more precisely, with “pause-savestates”.

Savestates tool exist in WiiU and 3DS systems, we already know and made the separation of its games.
For “pause-savestates” (so for Wii VC only), it allows you to save you game at any time, switch off the Wii system, and come back where you saved. But, the slight nuance is important: with “pause-savestate” it can be done only if you don’t die (or game over).

This option is not present in the original games, so it simply creates differences for making scores, especially for highscores games, or games where there exists periods with no danger, or even simply between levels or in any game where you can make a pause (inside the game, or with the pause button).
This can also creates differences in some games whith time records, in some particular situations.

Sorry if it exceed now the Zimer’s case, but this problem is important for VGR legitimacy.
In VGR, the basic principle of a fair competition is to ensure equal conditions between players (as far as possible, except some conditions like authorized racing wheels for racing games).

What was done in the past (grouping these games without checking, or not signaling the differences) is a bad mistake or lazyness, and now we have many problems to deal (and time to fix them), unfortunately. 
It has already been debated in VGR Councils.
A decision was taken in March 2020, and will be applied in the next future (in 2022, I hope…):
we need to separate Wii (Virtual Console), WiiU and 3DS games with the original games.
This was discussed again, and validated in the Council n°13 (23/02/22).

Last year, Wii U and 3DS games were created, now it remains to be done with Wii games.
Mostly for newcomers who joined VGR after 2020, if you want to make comments about this decision, please don’t make it in this actual Zimer’s Cheaters? Topic, but elsewhere, or here:
Additional platforms

After that, like written, I remind you that we will study the possibility (or probability) of deactivation of Virtual Console games, because they are also no more available since 31th January 2019. You can read and comment this other topic: 
Obsolete or unavailable games list