Calcul des points : la faille V2.0

TigrN :

The strong advantage of weighted average systems (which include the current system) is that they ensure that points awarded to untied ranks remain unaffected by the points awarded to tied ranks. In particular, it ensures that f(i,n) remains a decreasing function of i, irrespective of possible ties.

Yes. This is what I mean. That is how it is, so If Blackshark's idea is implemented the way he explains, then this Weighted Average System will have to disappear. if not, there will be a time where a lower rank, gets more points than the Ties above (Read My Other Posts).

@André Luis Fernandes: With V6 change, I lost 2/3 of my medals. One month ago, I was 5th at Points Leaderbords. Steps in Flow 5000+ was removed of the game, and I lost 2 places.

Rules can change. Rules have to change. We aren't speaking of ban Flow, just to reduce his impact, too important. Yes, some players, like you and me, will be penalized. But for VGR, it's better.

J'aime bien aussi l'idée de faire un classement Jeux comme Djon le propose.
Je pense cependant aux DLC, je ne sais pas comment intégrer ça.

On est d'accord que, dans ce cas, la formule ne change pas pour les records et que c'est la somme des pointsRecords d'un membre sur un jeu qui donne le classement du jeu (comme actuellement) mais qu'on prenne en compte la somme des pointsJeu pour le classement final ?

Est-ce que ça ne risque pas également de favoriser justement les joueurs qui peuvent jouer à plein de jeux gratuits sur OS mobile avec très peu de records ?

Sinon, on oublie effectivement l'idée d'un coeff sur chaque jeu, je comprends que ça ne vous convienne pas

Okami ... what I mean is not about losing or not losing.
it's about you play on a rule or not ...
I played on a rule, but if you change the points system, will change the system of medals too?
Now we are like cyberscore? to consider platinum 5 players have to overcome? or will only change the points?
you guys know that I will be the most affected with this change. Daftpunk also ...
is not it easier to maintain the current system and players who feel harmed start playing stream also?

and I'm not just talking about game flow.
games like super collapse, DDR series, among others is so easy to make the maximum scores?
is hypocrisy. other sites records have the same attitude?
not really.
Another Brazilian player once told me.
is a waste of time when you are standing out, rather than do the same they will find a way to make you fall.
I say: he predicts the future?
it seems so.
I'm sick of it.
I was warned even before entering VGR.
And I do blackshark says the victim, that's funny.
if necessary, come on.
but I leave here. when I'm near the top 10 any other crap like that then yes I give up VGR.
This topic and this attitude to me is a crap

D'après ce que j'ai compris pour le Top Jeux, le Top points disparaîtrait au profit du Top Jeux où ce serait encore un nouveau classement implémenté au site?

Comme l'a dit Nico, est-ce que ça n'influerait pas pour ceux qui ont pas mal de jeux OS ou alors, ça dépendra du nombre de joueurs a égalité etc... faut voir. (le coefficient serait sûrement plus apte dans cette situation)

Pour ce qui est de la nouvelle formule, je pense qu'elle valorise vraiment le terme RECORD. Et pas des records fait en 30 secondes dont tout le monde peut faire

Je comprends que cela contrarie ou emmerde certains mais un site, c'est fait pour évoluer, on savait déjà à l'époque que cette formule n'allait pas tenir des années et cela se vérifie maintenant.

Et de toute manière, il y aura toujours des contents et des mécontents c'est certain, au moins si cela peut faire avancer le débat (sans pour autant crier tout de suite au scandale et vouloir s'en aller du site)

Je suppose que ce serait pour remplacer l'actuel Top Points, ce qui deviendrait une véritable révolution sur VGR.

En ce qui concerne le fait que ça avantage ceux qui ont pas mal de jeux OS (je suis même tenté de dire : "qui ont pas mal de jeux" tout court) personnellement ça ne me choque pas vu que c'est déjà d'actualité avec le Top Points et même les autres Tops (Médailles, Preuves et Badges). Plus on a de jeux, plus on peut poster de scores, plus on a la possibilité de cumuler des points, des médailles, des preuves et des badges... même si cela ne fait pas forcément tout.

zephyraz ne me contredira pas avec son classement Z...

@André Luis Fernandes
We understand very well your concerns and it is sure that you and some other people who play a lot on Flow games will be "suffer" of any changes on points calculation.
But as in real life, rules must change to keep an healthy competition between all gamers on the site.

Right now, we have a real problem with the games like Flow, wich have a huge amount of records on the one hand, and on the other hand lot of these records are easily maxable. Because of this, if you want to be in the top of points, you have no other choice than playing on these games.
Like you said actually. The fact you play Flow games in order to reach top 10 is the perfect example of the problem we encounter today.
This is a fact and I think you would be agree to say that this is killing the global competition on the site. If you can reach top 10 just because of the Flow games, we can say there is no more real competition, don't you think ?

So we have no other choice than changing the points calculation to restore balance between all members.
But we want this change to be the fairest as possible. This is the reason why we want your opinion with this topic.

Of course, some people like you will be suffer and lose places in rankings. But this "problem" concerns only few members and it will allow lot of more members to join a fairest competition.

Exactly kloh. Take flothaboss for example. he was a million points behind wadoludo. He plays flow for a little bit and is now 700,000 points ahead of him. Andre, you said you are only playing them to get into the top 10, how you cannot see that is a problem is beyond me. As for DDR i don't see how you can compare the two, you can't just max every DDR record without skill, you can with flow games.

Also you talk of the site's attitude being "crap", but your attitude of "i will threaten to leave every time it doesn't go my way" isn't great either. Come on, you've threatened to leave more than me these last 18 months

Le Top Jeux n'est pas obligé de prendre la place du Top Points comme Top Principal du site mais pourquoi pas selon moi ça serait le mieux; mais déjà qu'il soit créer soit une bonne chose.
Ensuite on pourra décider tous ensemble s'il doit le devenir.

Pour les DLC, faites pareil que pour le Top Badges (je crois qu'on ne les prends pas en compte)

Je ne pense pas que cela favorise vraiment ceux qui ont pleins de jeux iOS car il y a beaucoup moins de joueurs comparés à des gros jeux de VGR comme Mario Kart, Smash Bros & cie... Et de toute façon il favorisera toujours beaucoup moins ces jeux que sur le Top Points actuel.

Edit : De plus ce nouveau classement va forcer tout le monde à poster sur TOUS LES RECORDS d'un jeu pour être bien classé dans le top général du jeu et non plus vouloir poster que sur les records où on est premier / deuxième donc que du positif pour VGR et la compétition saine !

thelegendarypsr :

Exactly kloh. Take flothaboss for example. he was a million points behind wadoludo. He plays flow for a little bit and is now 700,000 points ahead of him. Andre, you said you are only playing them to get into the top 10, how you cannot see that is a problem is beyond me. As for DDR i don't see how you can compare the two, you can't just max every DDR record without skill, you can with flow games.

Also you talk of the site's attitude being "crap", but your attitude of "i will threaten to leave every time it doesn't go my way" isn't great either. Come on, you've threatened to leave more than me these last 18 months

Wadoludo has 528,000 points in Flow free.
and over 30,000 in Flow +5000.
just not posted more is because almost two months without visiting the site.
Since it's quick and easy, just do what he Flothaboss, and the difference will remain the same.
That would be a lot easier than changing a whole system of points.
I did not compare games flow with DDR , what I meant is that these games also lose points because more than 70% of the songs made ​​the top score of 10.000000 points.
surely lose points too and it is very unfair.
yes is not the first time I threaten to leave the site. but I have my reasons.
did 4 times more combos than others players in Zuma, and after so much effort "Threaten" take my points.
Then I can finally get to the top 10 and now after I got here, will change the system that will make me fall numerous positions.
I did not do anything illegal, I'm playing games that are added in VGR.
one hour so tired.
but oh well, no use staying here arguing anything.
since the system will change as we see is the future of things.

André Luis Fernandes :

Wadoludo has 528,000 points in Flow free.
and over 30,000 in Flow +5000.
just not posted more is because almost two months without visiting the site.
Since it's quick and easy, just do what he Flothaboss, and the difference will remain the same.
That would be a lot easier than changing a whole system of points.

Not really. If anything that would emphasize the problem

did 4 times more combos than others players in Zuma, and after so much effort "Threaten" take my points.
Then I can finally get to the top 10 and now after I got here, will change the system that will make me fall numerous positions.
I did not do anything illegal, I'm playing games that are added in VGR.
one hour so tired.

The Zuma issue was based on the potential of infinite records, which we discussed and we were all happy with. The way you're talking, you're acting like you're a victim in all this, and that it's only because of you. It's not

I'm not saying that this change is going to happen is because of me. That would be ridiculous.
I'm saying that with this change I will be most affected, and this is true.
good, like I said, I will not argue about it.
We can only hope that this change is actually for the better, and not be unjust to anyone ...

I forgot who suggested to see it, but I would like to see it as well:
Could we see an Example of the current Suggested Formula (if its 100 with 0.99 or 0.95) on 2 types of Games, a game like Flow with Many Tied first places, and a game like New Super Mario Bros where there are Many Ties in many different Ranks.

André Luis Fernandes :

is not it easier to maintain the current system and players who feel harmed start playing stream also?

and I'm not just talking about game flow.
games like super collapse, DDR series, among others is so easy to make the maximum scores?
is hypocrisy. other sites records have the same attitude?
not really.
Another Brazilian player once told me.
is a waste of time when you are standing out, rather than do the same they will find a way to make you fall.
I say: he predicts the future?

Sim, era algo esperado. Seria tão difícil eles jogarem também? Enfim vamos esperar por um futuro melhor e então justo. Desde já, Boa Sorte! André
Outra coisa, não contrariando a sua personalidade de jogador ou não.
No meu caso eu NÃO tenho orgulho de meus recordes SCPG, tanto é que, quando pedem ajuda, geralmente eu dou a solução completa. Isso não é nada importante para mim. Neste jogo gosto de competir por enfrentar outros cérebros e tentar ser o melhor.
Eu escrevi no tópico SCPG (todos os Tieds fixos pelo próprio jogo SCPG1 e irei fazer com os outros no futuro). Se estão preocupados com as pontuações, basta fazer também.
Inclusive cheguei a comentar com o Zimer, sobre excluir 240 recordes de SCPG1 (na época) hoje 237.

I hope someone has knowledge of all games VGR. And make a fair decision.
Good job to the Team VGR. Good Luck!

Je ne savais pas que les DLC n'étaient pas pris en compte dans le calcul du classement badges (et des master badges?).. ils font partis du jeu ils faut les compter.

Wiirecords utilise déjà le type de classement que Djon a proposé, et ça fonctionne très bien.

Avantages du classements points par pointsjeu (pointsbadges) :
- Il pousse à poster plus sur les jeux afin d'améliorer notre position.
- Tous les jeux partent de manière égaux, quelque soit le nombre de records (plus de problèmes de jeux énormes qui viennent plomber la compétition).

Désavantages :
- Un jeu à 20000 records sera aussi important qu'un jeu à 1 record, alors qu'il demande beaucoup plus de temps.
- Plus de réel intérêt à poster sur des jeux à beaucoup de records.
- Les jeux pas beaucoup joués seront laissés de côté au profit des jeux à beaucoup de joueurs.

Conclusion :
Ce classement privilégie plus la qualité à la quantité. Il est complémentaire au classement points actuel.

Solution :
Trouver un moyen de combiner les deux formules? L'addition des deux donnerais une troisième formule qui prend en compte les jeux sans oublier le nombre de records.

Nillew :

Sim, era algo esperado. Seria tão difícil eles jogarem também? Enfim vamos esperar por um futuro melhor e então justo. Desde já, Boa Sorte! André
Outra coisa, não contrariando a sua personalidade de jogador ou não.
No meu caso eu NÃO tenho orgulho de meus recordes SCPG, tanto é que, quando pedem ajuda, geralmente eu dou a solução completa. Isso não é nada importante para mim. Neste jogo gosto de competir por enfrentar outros cérebros e tentar ser o melhor.
Eu escrevi no tópico SCPG (todos os Tieds fixos pelo próprio jogo SCPG1 e irei fazer com os outros no futuro). Se estão preocupados com as pontuações, basta fazer também.
Inclusive cheguei a comentar com o Zimer, sobre excluir 240 recordes de SCPG1 (na época) hoje 237.

I hope someone has knowledge of all games VGR. And make a fair decision.
Good job to the Team VGR. Good Luck!

Sim, eu concordo em parte do que você falou.
discordo só da parte de você dar a solução completa, isso não se faz, eu não faria...hehehe
vamos ver, espero que com essa mudança não seja cometida nenhuma injustiça, e que nenhum jogador fique desanimado, porque já existe muito jogador que nem aparece mais por aqui, talvez até por razão dessas mudanças repentinas.

Djon :

Pour les DLC, faites pareil que pour le Top Badges (je crois qu'on ne les prends pas en compte)

Les DLCs sont bien pris en compte, et c'est mieux ainsi.

Flothaboss :

Solution :
Trouver un moyen de combiner les deux formules? L'addition des deux donnerais une troisième formule qui prend en compte les jeux sans oublier le nombre de records.

Est-ce que notre requin peut nous faire ça avec des coefficients (p, 1 - p) sur les deux classements pour quelques jeux ?
Cette solution par Flo' m'a l'air vraiment pas mal, et peut-être même qu'avec un p variable en fonction du nombre de score sur un jeu, ça peut être fun.

Sincèrement je ne vois pas du tout l'intérêt de combiner la formule actuelle avec une nouvelle formule "PointsJeux".

Si on les combine ça veut dire qu'on va redonner de l'importance aux max scores rapides (qui diminueront de moitié d'importance sur le moment, mais qui reviendront encore plus fort quelques mois après, vu que dans la formule actuelle plus il y a d'égalités plus il y a de points...) et que donc on revient au point de départ... on atténue le problème sans le régler vraiment. De plus j'ose même pas imaginer comment on pourrait incarcérer ça dans le site, algorithmiquement parlant.

A mon avis il ne faut pas chercher compliqué, surtout si c'est pour que ça mette encore des années à être mis en place et pour qu'on ne règle pas définitivement le problème qui dure depuis fin 2009. Il faut chercher une solution simple et efficace et il me semblait que celle de Djon et la mienne semblaient satisfaire une grande majorité de VGRiens. Qu'est ce que vous voulez de plus ?

Moi ça me semble pas mal l'histoire de mixer les deux styles de points : ça force le joueur à poster un maximum de records bon ou mauvais pour chopper la meilleure position possible sur le classement d'un jeu, mais ça ne désavantage pas les jeux qui ont 20000 records.

Par exemple, Flow 5000+ a 5000 scores au total.
On pourrait donc imaginer quelque chose comme :

Nombre de PointsRecords = 1000*(n-p+1) * 0,95^(p-1)
Nombre de PointsBadge = Formule actuelle pour trouver le nombre de pointsBadges puis adapter les mêmes coefficients que pour les classement aujourd'hui (*0.8 pour le 2ème, *0.8*0.81 pour le 3ème, etc...)
Nombre de PointsJeu = Nombre de PointsRecords * (1/5000) + Nombre de PointsBadge * (1 - 1/5000)

pour un jeu à 20 records, ça serait :
Nombre de PointsJeu = Nombre de PointsRecords * (1/20) + Nombre de PointsBadge * (1 - 1/20)

Et pour un jeu à 1 record : Nombre de PointsJeu = Nombre de PointsRecords

Je sais pas si l'idée plaît et si oui, peut-être faut-il l'améliorer.